If your dive buddy doesn't surface

  • The recent death of our friend Nate Romig, most likely due to a blackout, shook up many of us. Every year on average we hear 2 reports of freediving spearfishermen dying this way. I want to start a discussion to establish a protocol for the divers on the surface, to give the blackout victim the best possible chance of survival. I don't want this to be a discussion of "safe diving practices" that should've been followed by the victim, just the scenario where one or two divers are on the surface, with and without a boat, and one diver that fails to surface.


    I must make one exception to state that in this situation the victim wearing a Freedivers Recovery Vest would be a huge factor in increasing his chances for survival. If the victim is not wearing an FRV and one of the divers on the surface is wearing one, could also be a big determining factor. Raising an unconscious body from depth is no easy task, but simply reaching the victim and grabbing hold, then inflating your own FRV will raise both divers effortlessly to the surface.

  • In Cuba we don't have a 911. the one thing we do is to do the job ourselves . when we know someone is missing we try to find him. we do not swim to shore to find help. If this person is not found, then we look for help. The first 5 minutes are crucial. Meaning that if this person is not found in the first 5 minutes, then is dead for sure and then you can look for help to find the body, not the person. For that reason, I've been meaning to say, knowing that I'll be criticized like Dan was. that i would have thrown the anchor then jumped in the water, and if I hadn't found the person, then I'd call 911. My point is not to criticize, but to set an idea or whatever you want to call it, so that next time we can do better to assist. In this kind of situation you can go down and either tie a rope to the hand or shoot it to save the person. You do not have to go down and bring him up with you because it can result in the death of both. So, i apologize if I unnerve anyone, but i understand why Dan asked the question. It's just about the first 5 minutes.

  • This is a very important thread. Regardless of what you decide is the right protocol, DECIDE on A protocol and make certain your dive buddies and boat guests all know it.

    i like to spear fish

  • Very important topic Dan. Thanks to start this thread.


    If your dive buddy doesn't surface.


    When my friend Roy Yogi didn't surface in Nusa Penida, my friend Pak Stew took control of the boat. This area is very cureented. The first thing he did was to have everyone tether themselves to buoys. There are two immediate concerns of life and death in this situation. The victim, and the potential rescuers.


    A Floatline is often readily available. Tethering yourself to a float line is a good course of immediate action. The idea is that you are going to be swimming looking for your friend. With a Floatline clipped onto your belt you have a way to clip onto them and pull them to the surface from the surface. There are other benefits.


    When another very close friend was located in 120ft of water in the same god damn place as Roy Yogi disappeared 10 years later, a friend dropped there with weight and used 2 float lines, one to his own belt, and one to clip onto our friends body.


    Theirs going to be a lot of learning and good advice in this thread. I'll immediately bring up the topic of rescuer safety.

  • Definitely throw anchor. Mark GPS, hale a Mayday to Coast Guard and start your search immediately. If you find the diver on the bottom and it is possible to make a recovery dive you need to get it together quickly because you don't get a second chance. If you make the dive to recover you must ditch your weight belt and ditch the down diver's weightbelt upon contact. This is where most people screw up.
    If the down diver is out of reach it is O.K. to shoot him and try to make recovery. This is something that all of the guys I dive with are O.K. doing in an emergency situation. A good friend of mine saved another good friend of mine this way. We had been talking about just two weeks before it happened and it saved a life.
    There is no substitute for following safe diving practices in order to avoid these situations. Surface time is more important than bottom time. Relax and take time between dives. Keep an eye out for the guys you are diving with while you are on the surface. If you don't see them start looking for them before it is too late.

  • For those who don't know here's the incident Red Tide spoke of, from the perspective of the victim and the rescuer.

    Here are pics of Steve's fin. I believe shooting a diver you can't reach is a valid option (obviously). Targeting any area of his body other than the vital organs and head is better than no shot at all, if that's the only opportunity that presents itself. If there's a choice I'd go for the thigh. Calves and arms are a smaller target and there's a chance of missing. There are major blood vessels in the thigh, but the possibility of hitting one is small and the alternative of no shot is certain death. Oddly Pantoja and I were also discussing this possibility only a week or two before Steve's accident. When I heard the story it was not a revelation, I was more surprised Cameron chose to shoot the fin, I didn't know at the time there was a reason for that. They were fortunate to have by chance set up this strange rigging with Cameron's gun. We always use float lines and are familiar with the float line assisted diving method, so it would be a natural thing to do.



  • I pretty much agree with the throw anchor, call rescue and the jump in the water with a float system to begin searching for your buddy. Pulling your unconscious dive partner out of the water in 5 minutes vs 15 minutes (by the time rescue gets there) is a huge window in saving someones life.


    After locating the person, get them to the surface by any means. That could be diving down and grabbing them if shallow enough, shooting them with your gun if that's the only option or even bringing down a line when you jump in to dive down and tie the line to their leg or torso and then surface and pull them up to save strenuous work on your part to avoid becoming another victim.


    This also may be one scenario where carrying those "Spare-Air" bottles on your boat may come in handy.

  • Do you have a link to some of this course material? This would be a great addition to our discussion. Especially the parts about finding a diver on the bottom. I for one haven't seen it online besides bits and pieces usually used as promotional material for the courses themselves or discussions people record on youtube/share on forums.


    While I agree in person instruction from a skilled teacher is preferred I disagree with the notion that it cannot be learned on your own or there is no benefit to spreading this information outside a classroom that costs hundreds of dollars to enter. Especially when compared with just plain old not knowing what to do. The things you listed are neither rocket science nor secrets, yet all these agencies do quite a good job of promoting their courses and quite a poor job of promoting the understanding of the basics of safe diving. I highly doubt this information being more available to the public without the watchful eye of a carefully trained (by taking a course themselves, perhaps weeks ago if they are one of the bazillion new instructors training up to feed the beast) instructor is going to be a bad thing for diver safety. But I do agree for a large number of people the $400 is well worth it and the best way to learn. I also feel inversely that you can pay $400, pass the course, get your card, and still be a disaster waiting to happen.



    I would rather have someone who learned CPR on youtube pumping on my chest than someone who has no idea how CPR works sitting there clueless because they figured it could only be learned via a class.


    I dont mean to imply that freediving courses require reaching depth goals and doing long statics. Rather these concepts have been interwoven into safety information to appeal to new divers. And as a result a spearo has no choice but to pay $400+ for safety information combined with a bunch of freediving crap. Or scrounge around on their own to learn about these techniques and procedures. You can just read promotional material for the courses and see what they are selling. I see them on Instagram all the time. They read hyperbolically like this.


    "Never swam before!? Well get you to 66ft and show you how to hold your breath for 4 minutes!"

  • In Cuba we don't have a 911. the one thing we do is to do the job ourselves . when we know someone is missing we try to find him. we do not swim to shore to find help. If this person is not found, then we look for help. The first 5 minutes are crucial. Meaning that if this person is not found in the first 5 minutes, then is dead for sure and then you can look for help to find the body, not the person. For that reason, I've been meaning to say, knowing that I'll be criticized like Dan was. that i would have thrown the anchor then jumped in the water, and if I hadn't found the person, then I'd call 911. My point is not to criticize, but to set an idea or whatever you want to call it, so that next time we can do better to assist. In this kind of situation you can go down and either tie a rope to the hand or shoot it to save the person. You do not have to go down and bring him up with you because it can result in the death of both. So, i apologize if I unnerve anyone, but i understand why Dan asked the question. It's just about the first 5 minutes.


    I completely agree. we have dive rescue here but iv never seen the boat off its trailer :crazy: id go further and say that depending on your area, take extra time to look for the body before finding help. In my favorite dive spots when the currents moving a sinking body could be moved off the shelf's out to water that is beyond recovery by any diver. A carter float would also be a option more people might already have to the frv for aiding in bringing a body to the surface once you get a hold of them.
    This is a great discussion to have and we should all probably have it with those we dive/fish with.

  • This is the most dangerous underwater practice of all. The only acceptable protocol is to pay close attention to your dive buddy and keep an eye on each other like hawks. I always asume that an oncoming emergency is about to happen every single time that any one plunges into the ocean. I even say a prayer while catching air prior to my dives. I do not dive after my partner emerges, until I reckon he has enough air to bail me out if need be and I give him the Ok hand sign. This is the way we always do it. Never loose eye contact with your diving partner. That´s the point going out together, not just sharing gas expenses.


    Never dive in conditions that are out of your control if an emergency arises. As simple as that, it simply doesn´t worth it.


    You gotta always adopt the "prepare for the worst expecting the best" kind of attitude. Expect always an emergency and all the time you will have an emergence instead.

    I'm a Speardiver, not a freediver

  • Another thing we learned when my very good friend and dive buddy Davo did not surface. It was the last dive of the day. Drift diving in Heavy currents. 5pm on the equator, strong glare. Small group of islands in the middle of a very deep channel, 12-15miles from the main island. Davo made a last drop with just a reel. At the end of the drift, everyone else met the boat, but Dave wasn't there. He couldn't be located on the surface, couldn't be heard. Returning to the beginning of the drift, a group of friends made desperate repeated drifts looking for his body. As it became dark, there was no other option but to return to port and report the incident to the Police.


    At the end of his drift, Dave was quite calm. He could see the boat and waived his Urukay at them, the boat was busy picking up the other divers, one of whom he figured had landed a fish. No worries, Dave swam against the current to maintain position as best he could. He had a whistle which he was blowing to alert them to his position. Then the boat moved back to the top of the drift. The currents in these parts of Indonesia are very strong. Dave is the best swimmer I know. He regularly swim trains. He swam at full kick for over an hour fighting the current trying to stay as close to the small island as possible. As it grew dark he had to make a big decision.. He ditched the Urukay, his belt, and kept his knife. He knew he would need to swim the 12-15 miles through the night to the main island. Unsure of the sweep in the Channel, he made his best guess and swam in the trajectory he thought would get him close to the main island of Sumbawa. He kept his knife as he had decided that if the was attacked by a shark, he would cut his arteries. In the glimmer of dawn, Dave saw a local fishing boat, swam to it and was rescued 1/2 mile from shore.


    The point of this story is that you should always call for help first, and that you can never assume that your buddy didn't surface.

  • I have never used a carter float but do they hold air. I mean once inflated will they hold that air or do they deflate? Could one pop a carter float and then use that to hold on to if they were stranded like dave in the above story?


    Thanks for sharing jon

    i like to spear fish

  • Doc, Jake and I were talking about the recent tragedies.


    It's not a cure all and purists might call bullshit on it, but I'm going to bring two sets of scuba on the boat from now on. Rigged and ready to go.


    If your buddy is down, and you're not sure where if he hasn't surfaced…maybe he's entangled?….at least you can grab the gear, stay down much longer looking, get a reg in his mouth if you find him while bringing him up, hopefully still conscious but if not, it wouldn't hurt to have the reg stuffed in his mouth if he gasps for air on the way up.

  • I have never used a carter float but do they hold air. I mean once inflated will they hold that air or do they deflate? Could one pop a carter float and then use that to hold on to if they were stranded like dave in the above story?


    Thanks for sharing jon



    Yes they have a dump valve on one end to vent off excess gas but stay inflated. I used to pack one of those thin 6' mouth inflate types back when I'd be left on the reef by my self while my friends fished a ways off. It rolled up really small and made it easier for them to find me a few hours later.

  • Yes they have a dump valve on one end to vent off excess gas but stay inflated. I used to pack one of those thin 6' mouth inflate types back when I'd be left on the reef by my self while my friends fished a ways off. It rolled up really small and made it easier for them to find me a few hours later.


    Cool. thanks for the info. like a scuba marker? I might throw one of those on my belt actually.

    i like to spear fish

  • I always tell my kids to look after the other, but I also tell them to don't rely than someone will be looking at them and to dive as if they were alone. There are so many factors that can distract you while diving to rely on a buddy's watch for your life.


    On my own, I have very precise limits that I don't exceed. Ever.


    Sorry for the derrail but I had to say it.

    Marco Melis

    A bad day fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work.

  • behslayer,i do not agree with you. in your friend's davo case. i think that having a float line and float would have made the difference. second. you guys looked for him for what amount of time? there is a difference in not seeing someone surface and not finding someone when picking up at the end of the day or whatever. the way i see it . if you guys would have used the float line system in a situation like that (strong currents, bunch of people in the water etc) davo wouldn't have had that kind of trouble. the current here is not that hard and still i can't stand 3 or 4 people in the water , all spread around to their own fate. so, in that situation , given the choice. i would have kept a capt in the boat looking ahead of current, and the rest in the water for 15 minutes. after that, it's useless. remember i talked about the first 5 minutes. so , to give you the benefit of the doubt i say 15 minutes. but, anytime after that it's 911 , or rescue team effort. so, that being said , this event about davo does not , in any case , assure that the step to follow is to forget about a quick rescue by the buddy divers and call for 911 or coast guard rescue. my 2 c.

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