Bi-lingualism in America

    This is the only place where I feel like I can ask this question. I hope that you will take it as I intend, with honest curiosity and no political motive.


    I noticed in Home Depot the other day that all of the larger signs were printed in both Spanish and English, and it made me think a bit. I'll be the first to admit that the American public school system pays only token attention to the teaching of a second language. In a global marketplace, it will become increasingly important and eventually indispensable for our kids to speak more than just English.


    And yet, many on this board have a solid comand of English, even though it was not your native tongue. Maybe you learned it when you came to America (if that is where you live), or maybe you learned it in school somewhere else. I am wondering how you feel about printing signs, forms, instructions, etc. in multiple languages. Is it out of line to expect people who live in a country to speak and read the language of that country? I am not talking about airports and the like where people from dozens or hundreds of other countries may pass through on a temporary basis and need assistance to get where they are going. But how far should the government of a country go to accomodate those who are unable to read or speak the language of that country.


    I would also be interested to hear how other countries approach this, from any who have traveled extensively.

    In the example you posted the government is not the decision maker. Home depot and many of the places you'll find catering to Spanish speakers are private enterprises. As such their motivation for bilingual signage is $$. I believe private enterprises should be able to make that decision with a few restrictions. I don't know how it is here but in Canada, where there are many businesses that cater to different ethnic groups to the point that they don't really care to service English speakers at all, the law requires establishments that have store front signs in another language to have on the same sign the same content in English. I think it's a fair law. Kinda like the American law that if you're flying a flag of another country over your house you must also fly the American flag and it must be at least a little higher.


    As far as the government I think it also boils down to $$. It's cheaper in the long run for them to go bilingual as opposed to any other way. Spanish speakers are a huge consumer group. The more fluid the process of collecting taxes and such the better it is for the state. Isn't the US all about $$?


    I can understand the resulting resentment from English only speaking Americans but I don't sympathize. Isn't it the same as somebody coming to Louisiana and not being able to understand French? Maybe it's different in the US but in Quebec even if they know how to speak English they sometimes will not talk to you. I don't speak French but if I chose to spend time in Quebec I would learn it.

    I see it as being courteous, I know first hand the trouble people go through not knowing the language. Corporations do it for business, it's as simple as that. If the second most popular language was French instead of Spanish those signs would be in French. I'm pretty sure you can get any government form in whatever language you wish.


    I see no trouble with the american public school system, at least where I attended. I learned quite a bit of french in foreign language classes. If you wish to learn a second or third language the option is there.

    Davie Peguero

    Most middle class mexicans speak fluently english and french. I had both subjects in elementary school, high school and even College. It is mandatory to learn the two languages in order to graduate from college. I had italian and German courses as well. Just for cultural variety. I guess Mexico is a cultural melting pot, the home place of " La Raza Cósmica" ... I can´t think of a latinamerican country that doesn´t have both languages (English and Spanish) as an official language.

    I'm a Speardiver, not a freediver

    I didn't recognize the value of a second language growing up, so the only language courses that I took were the ones which were required. It's true that I never applied myself in that area, but I doubt that most Americans graduate high school with even remote fluency in an second language. As with any subject, the relative few who are highly interested and motivated will excel.


    Dan - It's interesting that you mentioned French in Louisiana. Although it is a part of the State's heritage, there are relatively few native speakers. The dialect isn't formal French, but a creole blend that is different. One of the reasons that native speakers are increasingly rare was the government's hard line policy against speaking it in schools back in the mid 1900's. Kids of the time were beaten and humiliated for speaking in the "uneducated" tongue of the rural Acadians.

    Tin,
    Spanish is a must. It's always been part of this countries history. Plus English and Spanish are neck and neck as the 3rd most spoken Language in the world. What we should all be talking about at his point is, do we need to learn Mandarin?:thinking:

    Quote from Toledo970

    Tin,
    Spanish is a must. It's always been part of this countries history. Plus English and Spanish are neck and neck as the 3rd most spoken Language in the world. What we should all be talking about at his point is, do we need to learn Mandarin?:thinking:


    Es bueno tenerlo de regreso por acá señor. Se le extrañó en buena lid.

    I'm a Speardiver, not a freediver

    Welcome back Ray.


    Tin, when in junior high I didn't recognize the value of a second language either. As you probably know Canada has two official languages; English and French. In Canada French is a mandatory subject in junior high. I was way behind when I started and completely disregarded the subject. I really regret this as I missed on some free and useful education. I would like to know French, I love the sound of women speaking it :D I also regret not having taken a year or two to live in Quebec.

    Dan, french is easy once you speak a romance language like spanish or italian... La declination du verbes et la pronuciatiòn, se rendent les plus hautes difficultès dans la langue francaise .. cette belle langue resemble beaucoup la gramatique du le ´spagnol, et plusiers des mots ce sont très similiares parmi les deux langues...

    I'm a Speardiver, not a freediver

    hi.i live in amsterdam now for a few years and every new person that wants to come and live and work here have to learn dutch.i have a colombian babysiter who has to go back to colombia study dutch there and take a test in the dutch embacy if she does not pas it she can not come to live in holand.it is a bit much but there are many people living here for many year who know non or very littel dutch.

    Quote from alecrin

    hi.i live in amsterdam now for a few years and every new person that wants to come and live and work here have to learn dutch.i have a colombian babysiter who has to go back to colombia study dutch there and take a test in the dutch embacy if she does not pas it she can not come to live in holand.it is a bit much but there are many people living here for many year who know non or very littel dutch.


    Zo, spreek jij wel Nederlands? Of heb je dat niet geleerd?


    Dutch is pretty useless unless you're in Belgium, Suriname, a handful of little islands in the caribbean, run into some of the old timers in Indonesia or don;t speak English in South Africa. That said, it has given me a good base to learn other languages, and because of a lot of the harsh sounds we make, we have little problems with pronunciation of other languages... In school there, French and German are mandatory subjects, at least until a certain grade. I think you can't graduate w/o english at all...

    This is a good thread for me. One of the reasons I am here is to help me learn spanish. When spearos write in spanish here I try to translate every word to help me learn spanish. Sort of like having spanish speaking spearos teach me spanish. Plus I learn the most important spanish words first, like tiburon and cerveza.:)
    hau

    hi gerald,ja ik spreek nederlans ,ik won in nederland al 10 jar of meer .schriven vind ik minder .war kom jij vandam.i hope you understand what i wrote,and yes i know i can not spel ja ja ja.

    Quote from alecrin

    hi gerald,ja ik spreek nederlans ,ik won in nederland al 10 jar of meer .schriven vind ik minder .war kom jij vandam.i hope you understand what i wrote,and yes i know i can not spel ja ja ja.


    and where do yo spear, there?
    In the walcheren island?
    :laughing: :laughing:

    As a first generation Venezuelan born Italian, I learned italian as my first language. Then Spanish when I started to interact with other kids. English at school and Portuguese speaking with my peers twice a year and by phone.


    In my opinion, a second language should be taken more seriously while at school. My two kids understand italian (I always speak to them in that language), the older speaks English very well and the youngest is learning.


    For me, Its been easier to learn new languages (I also understand a little french). I think once you have a second language, your brain kind opens to new ones...


    Hau: Don't forget COÑO! Mierda! and Puñeta!

    Marco Melis

    A bad day fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work.

    Quote from alecrin

    hi gerald,ja ik spreek nederlans ,ik won in nederland al 10 jar of meer .schriven vind ik minder .war kom jij vandam.i hope you understand what i wrote,and yes i know i can not spel ja ja ja.


    Hahaha, you write like my wife, but I know exactly what you're saying. :) I was born in Leiden, lived in Haarlem until my mid teens and then moved to Curaçao with my parents, who are still there... Writing Dutch is hard, even I have a hard time, and you'd probably laugh if you'd hear me speak Dutch as I have an Antilliaans accent.


    You must hate not getting in any good diving. I'd get to depressed living there.

    Yup, it is. Brooklyn, Flushing, Stuyvesant and Staten Island all came from Dutch also... They just never protected that particular colony properly and had to give it up after the 2nd Anglo Dutch war in 1667. They They were forced to trade New Netherland as it was called for Suriname.... I guess you can say they got the short end of the stick... This country could have been a lot different if they would have had the resources dedicated to it like they did to indonesia for example....

    Very interesting. Do these names have meanings in dutch? From the little bit of history I know the English, Spanish, Portuguese and Dutch were the main competitors for this continent. I'm not %100 sure but I remember there are some isolated areas far south in south America where only dutch is spoken.

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