Why build Hybrids? Pros and Cons

  • Fair enough Dan and sorry Dusty for my part in the derailing of a great thread, I believe you should only have a opinion if you have shot or used a bit of gear enough to actually have a valid personal opinion, as contrary to popular belief as that seems . I to would like to read more from owners of hybrids like Jim and Hank and less from those who dont .:@ ;)


    Yes, I have never fired one. But they are very appealing to me. If money was no question, I'd have a couple for sure.
    So Wong owners chime in..... What is it. It's got to be more than tracking and epoxy camo. What is it?

    Dustan Baker


  • So Wong owners chime in..... What is it. It's got to be more than tracking and epoxy camo. What is it?


    I would guess it's a lot like Chevy/Ford or Dodge pickup owners. Brand loyalty. Are there other guns as good? From my limited knowledge, I would guess that yes, there are.
    I'm sure there are guns that have the same durabililty, quality in parts and craftsmanship etc. And from what I've read, there are more accurate guns based on test firing in a controlled environment.


    Why Daryl has such a staunch group of dedicated Wong users? Aside from his guns being proven on the hunt?
    He lives the life of a diver (when he's not torturing someone in his dental chair:D). Hard core and out there every week. If you buy a gun from him, I'm pretty sure he'll be happy to take you out on his boat to his best ulua holes, or wahoo...or just reef fish. Jake said he went with him one day with two guys who had some other guns. He's a commercial spearo and gets a LOT of fish in a day. He and Joe work in sync as a team really well.
    I learned more from him over three years and 6 trips on his boat than I did on my own in 10 years of diving alone.
    At the ritual BBQ after the hunt at his house he'll teach you how to repair a gun, tie bands, repair shafts...and have fun talking story about hunting all over the world.


    So, I admit, it is a lot about who he is to me as much as how his guns work. Jay Riffe didn't invite me to go spearing with him. (just saying....I know he's a good person but also a busy man).


    And Dustan, you're welcome to come to Belize and borrow one of my 55 rear handle plus. (Jake, Tino and I use them) Set it up with different band lengths, diameter etc. I prefer to power it down a bit. Jake....well, he's Jake...he likes 24 inch 5/8 on his.

    Edited 3 times, last by hank: spelling and stuff ().

  • I have never used a hybrid, but I have owned and used many wooden and pipe guns. After many (too many maybe) years spearfishning, I have found that FOR ME, nothing beats a good balanced pipe gun.


    When I lived in Puerto Rico and the visibility was very good, a 130-140 railgun was all I needed to get whatever fish showed up. In Venezuela, where the water is not as clear, a 110 is all I need. Sometimes, when water clears up and wahoos show up, maybe a longer gun would be more apropriate, but having less range is more challenging and at the end of the day, fish come home as well. ;)


    Nothing tracks better than a pipegun and chest loading is not an issue to me. It is just a matter of getting used to.

    Marco Melis

    A bad day fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work.

  • Quote
    So, I admit, it is a lot about who he is to me as much as how his guns work. Jay Riffe didn't invite me to go spearing with him. (just saying....I know he's a good person but also a busy man)



    That's because we're out diving hard feeding our sushi craving family's.
    I'll send you some Riffe stickers for your boat, before long the whole family will be down there diving.;)
    You have a standing invitation to dive with Julie Riffe and I any time your up my way, but it may be a wet bumpy ride.:D


    Cheers, Don

  • Yes, I have never fired one. But they are very appealing to me. If money was no question, I'd have a couple for sure.
    So Wong owners chime in..... What is it. It's got to be more than tracking and epoxy camo. What is it?


    It doesn't have to be more than tracking and Camo.


    If it tracks better than an equivalently powerful gun, it's worth it right there. Wong owners have a high quality item that feels special and works well. That's really all it takes.


    I prefer wood guns for the feel of the recoil versus pipe guns. I'm partial to certain trigger assemblies because they make shooting more pleasurable. It's not one thing, but a totality. I don't own any Wongs any more, but it's nice to feel like you had something special/desirable.


    If I was ever fortunate enough to live in Hawaii, I'd probably get one for the hell of it, even though I could build one.

  • I hate hybrids, and I've owned 2 and shot 3. And I dive with GR who loves them.


    First, I have trouble aiming them. Second, I have trouble dealing with the kick when you power them up.


    I prefer a solid wood enclosed track gun with minimal kick. Or better yet a roller gun.


    I just ordered a Merou roller muzzle that I plan on mounting to the front of a teak gun.


    C

  • somewhere daryl is laughing all the way to the bank, pure marketing genius.


    I've been meaning to thank you for the gun build tutorials on this site. They've greatly helped me over the last few years.


  • The standard one I had trouble aiming, the Magnum was much better in both respects. It may not seem like it from this thread, but I vastly prefer wood guns.

  • An interesting topic to say the least.


    Having had several years of experience shooting multiple configurations of these guns, I would have to say that they are way more "specialized" then many are led to believe.


    My primary hunting conditions with these guns were off the Southern California coast. Personally I found that the these were the ideal conditions for a hybrid gun in the shorter lengths (42-52.5") where dirty water combined with limited visibility and heavy cover demanded a fast swinging gun.


    Fast swing can be a relative term though. I feel that manuverabilty is a much better term. Obviously the longer the gun and the pivot point on the gun (the handle) how the gun is handled, carried, aimed, etc. have a much bigger impact than a streamlined front end.


    Most of these design aspects have much more to do with personal preference than what someone tells you that something should be.


    My best advice to anyone considering a hybrid would be to spend some time hunting with one before commiting to having one custom built. This is the only true measure of how they will perform.


    In an overall analysis of a hybrid, my biggest critique of them would be, that unless they are finely tuned, the balance of the gun is almost impossible to make "just right". Any changes made to the gun will affect the characteristics in some way, shape or fashion.


    Close shots are not affected so much as long-range precision shots. I couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with ANY hybrid I owned past 10-12' from the tip of the shaft. For longer range shots, I prefer a rear handled gun in wood or pipe that is perfectly balanced or very slightly nose heavy. Think of it in terms of trying to hit a target with a pistol at 100 yds vs. hitting the same target with a rifle. A difficult thing to do on a hybrid unless it has a short overall length with a mid-handle, making it easier to manage.


    Just my dos centavos:toast:


  • a thoughtful response from a man with plenty of experience.


    the problem with daryls hybrid is the pipe he uses (.125" wt by 1'' od if memory serves me right). while it's really stiff, it's also really heavy and doesnt have enough air volume to hold the muzzle up in the water. this is especially noticeable with the gr version which doesnt have enough wood in the back to add lead so the gun is more balanced.


    i think a better pipe would have been a thicker od and thinner wt for more air volume and less weight overall while providing enough stiffness, something the bicycle industry has been doing for years now.


    my two drachmas although i dont hold 56 world records.

    steve veros


    in loving memory of paolo

  • I agree with you... I feel the wong following is worse by some of those who own it and it gets a little over the top... the one guy on spearbored has stuff about wong in his signature, profile picture, user title... jeezus christ. Never met daryl or talked to him, dont have an issue with him, sure hes a great guy and seems like it from his posts on the various boards. The wong army hysteria is more overwhelming then the mako following though in my eyes. I think its crazy when people recommend a wong as a first gun to some of the newcomers to the sport.


    I and my boys (i have 5 sons who are all watermen) shoot Aimrite rail guns (75, 110, 140 Super Venoms), several blue water wood custom enclosed track guns by Bobby Abril (Big Island builder), We've owned and still use Riffe C-4X, Island, and have shot Wong Hybrids.



    As for hybrids...I like the concept of rail gun tracking and the ballast and mid handle feel of the wood stocks. I would rather build one than spend the money I DON'T have for a new Wong, but that's just how I think. If I had the money I would have the master Hybrid builder hand craft one for me. I know Daryl and the Oahu dive crew, have shared alot of meals and spent hours talking story with them and in addition to getting a solid, accurate and work-of-art gun, you get a friend and mentor for life! Daryl, as are many of the Island spearos, is filled with Aloha and gives his time and energy to making every encounter with his buyers (or friends) a memorable and educational one. No ego, no malice. Just 100% Hawaiian Island Spearing Stoke! And his craftsmanship is unsurpassed. Daryl just doesn't build a gun that Terry M likes, he is also the kind of ethical spearo that Terry M is.


    Just a personal note about the Wong Solja you comment on (if we're talking about the same guy). To most mainland kooks the idea of fierce loyalty to a local builder or business gets lost due to the "me" mentality of big mainland living. If you ever came to the Big Island and ran into this Big Island brother, especially down at the remote local dive spot he calls home, it would be easy to see why he is a fan of Daryl. He is a skilled master waterman who not only consistently lands big fish in harsh conditions, but also has mentored and shared his knowledge of BI spots and hunting strategies with many. Besides being a Wong gun shooter, he is also a Wong product of a spearo...quick and willing to share and full of character. He is hard core and like most of us island locals, fiercely loyal and protective of all that is Hawaiian.


    I don't know the person who made the comment and assume there was no malice in the criticism, just lack of personal knowledge regarding who he was talking about. I also apologize to the guys reading this thread if I diverted attention away from the topic defending a Big Island brother with whom I share an Island Salt water bond. This guy and I are friends and more importantly Ohana!


    Aloha,
    Makoa

    HUI KOA KAI O HAMAKUA
    MAHALO KE AKUA
    E MALAMA I KE KAI

  • Sorry for bringing to life an old thread, but I certainly want to chime in. I have had several spearguns of all types and makes over a span of time that can be traced back to at least 15 years ago; during this time I have had 5 Wong spearguns from which 4 were hybrids. My personal experience with them has been of mixed experiences. I bought the hype from the Wong fans on spearboard and ended up believing delusional things about their performance. I was at first disappointed, because I couldn't hit shit with them on a regular basis, no matter how hard I tried. Long story short, I came to realize that there were nothing wrong with the wongs, they perform flawlessly with the right set up. A thinner 9/32 shaft and twin 16 mm rubbers for the most part. (That's a personal opinion of course, this is how they work perfect for me) The hybrids certainly track beautifuly and are very easy to dive with, aside from being gorgeous AF... I still have a Wong hybrid which I enjoy very much, but certainly I have some other guns that I enjoy equally as much. I still think they're really expensive, but I guess Daryl's uber nice service still adds them extra value... Regards

    I'm a Speardiver, not a freediver

  • My Brother-in Law were all fishermen using bamboo rafts and crude small home made spearguns as well as nets. I started out by buying a pole spear as whim on I bought on the internet maybe 18 years ago. I had been a scuba diver for over twenty years and loved diving. My house is located on the China Sea and you can't fill a tank within a four hour drive so I turned to free diving. The next year I bought Riffe Competitor #S1 39". it was an amazing upgrade over a poll spear (Duh!). I was able to tag some fish but the overfished reef I lived in front of held smaller skittish reef fish that were paranoid by any intrusion or disturbance. SO I had to improve my technique and needed a gun that could reach out further. I read reviews and stalked forums gleaning all I could. There is abundance of opinions as to which is better and why. I offer only my personal direct experience as a reference over the progression of my development over the years. I finally decided to purchase a Wong 55in Hybrid from Daryl Wong based on the reverence and praise littered across the forums. It was an amazing upgrade one again I was able to finally reach out and tag fish worthy of a dinner plate. I used it exclusively for about for several years. I had a few issues with it but true to his word Daryl serviced my gun above and beyond and profit he'd made. He is a great people person and gave be excellent advise freely over the years. Wong is customer service. I wrote a review posted on this very forum about my gun and his service like wise I have a review on the Lazer Tec 115 in additions. So you want to hear from someone who has used it Bingo I qualify.


    First the notion that it is a custom gun built specifically for you is a little misleading. true Daryl will discuss what kind of conditions and under what circumstance you fish and then recommend one of several different models he makes. I have no doubt for some big name divers he has tweaked a gun to meet their demands but for the most part it is a hand made gun that is one of several stock guns he makes. I have often wondered why he used such a cheap plastic handle and frankly the trigger mechanism is kinda of skimpy and does not have the trigger pull of a say a Speardiver Side Line Release Trigger Mechanism or even a Neptonics Trigger. I noticed that you really have to learn to shoot a Wong gun to compensate for a fairly strong muzzle flip. Some have mentioned how tracking is an advantage but I found that because the bands don't like flat against the barrel they tend to vibrate as you pan the gun they give some notable resistance. The gun is lighter but the balance of the gun seem muzzle heavy and can become tiring holding one handed.


    Lastly I wanted a gun with an enclosed track and Darly felt the the semi-enclose track was quite adequate. So I ended up getting a Lazer Tec 115. The difference was again amazing (You can read the review). I am not selling the Lazer Tec 115 it is a great gun but Ihab and customer service know not each other. It is my current gun of choice however.


    I have sough advise here over the years from guns to fins and back. People know what they have and what works for them. I have spent 15 years tweaking my equipment to the point I am at today and it is a form of evolution. Thanks too advise and actual gear in the water trails I enjoy excellent spearfishing. a Post on how are you outffited might be interesting.


    I had many years successfully fishing with my Wong gun but I am now a wood gun guy and would'nt go back.



    When I am not sleeping, I'm Spearfishing.
    My Aeris 10 only records 99 dives.
    I use them all every day the China Sea will admit me.

  • I tried a Wong Supermagnum one month ago on a tuna trip I went with my son and didn't like it. It is muzzle heavy and it does have a strong recoil. Additionally, 4 bands never stay "organized" along the barrell and ends up being bulky. For the records: I took one shot and missed it. Fortunately it wasn't a tuna. My son missed a tuna 10 feet away with the exactly same gun.

    Marco Melis

    A bad day fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work.

  • Sorry to hear that Marco, it can be quite frustrating to invest a large amount of money on a trip and be disappointed by the equipment. I haven't had experience with the Super Magnums, but I have had three Magnum hybrids (50",55", and 60") they shoot best with twin rubbers in the 16 mm range, and a 9/32 shaft; quite probably they can be fired with a 5/16 shaft no problems. I'm by no means a feeble guy, and I can tell you that three bands are too much for the Mags. My guess 'd be that three 5/8s and a 5/16 it's all a Super magnum can honestly and decently stand, without too much recoil and hitting low. Too much money for such a gun IMO. My Riffe Island with stabilizers is my "go to" bluewater gun, I can fire it single handed with 4 5/8 bands. The thing is dead on. If you ever consider a not so expensive full time BW gun, (not custom of course) a Riffe Island with stabilizers is the way to go...

    I'm a Speardiver, not a freediver

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