Posts by Dan

Censorship is not permitting someone to speak. I've done nothing of the sort here because there's no content that needs to be censored. It would've been easy for you to leave it at: I don't like what you said Dan. But to be "disturbed" because I said someone is confused and adding the spiel about politics and motives seemed to imply more. While running this forum does put me in a position of greater responsibility/accountability about what I say, I'm still just a person who likes spearfishing and gear, and I'm not going to kill myself holding my tongue.

Nice trick thanks for sharing. I always put lobster tails in the microwave for a few seconds to get the meat out.

For the gopro put it on the narrowest field of view setting. And you need the flat lens.

Very nice Harry, makes me want to get out there.

That's not censorship, if anything it's making noise and therefore drawing attention to all parties involved in the discussion. It's like saying I'm trying to censor freediving courses. I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, I'm just tired of hearing this nonsense about a roller having more power than the same length conventional gun.

21cm naked.

Then we're in agreement that Seal's way of comparing roller to conventional is wrong.

We'll wait for Charlie to provide the measurements and resolve your doubt.

BTW your explanation of politics and hindrance of development clearly puts me in the victim seat. As such I don't think that's what George had in mind.

You're avoiding the question which was whether Seal's assertion that in Chuckd's test the conventional speargun was double powered is correct. We're not talking about band lengths and stretch which would vary power by %10 - -, we're talking about double the power. I know you know what I'm asking, is Seal right?

Charlie already stated the band diameter on both guns is 5/8". The only question is how long are the bands and where is the max power anchoring point on the bottom of the roller.

Xan, do you think Chuckd's comparison of spearguns was apples to apples? And if yes what does that say about Seal's assertion that the conventional gun in that test was essentially double powered, or in other words IS SEAL RIGHT?

Quote from Wishihadgills

As for the sale of spearfishing gear in general (a little off topic) yes I agree with George that politics and other factors have really hindered the development of quality products.

Could you expand on this, I really want to know how/which product was hindered?

Seal, you post no evidence and no proof, only opinion based on an incorrect perception of what is one band and what is two bands. I do think you're just confused. With lack of evidence and proof the best way to keep oneself convinced of something wrong it to get others to believe in it too, kinda like religion, hence I said you try to confuse others. Put whatever spin on it you want describing band configurations, my premise that a roller of the same length is not more powerful than a conventional speargun has been adequately demonstrated in this thread.

Quote from Dude george

I know first hand there is allot of bullshit politics in this sport and normally stay away because I rarely understand the undercurrents...

...you dont have to build guns to survive mister mayor

George, are you insinuating that I have an ulterior motive with this thread? Do you seriously think I can't sell roller guns and muzzles if I chose to? Do you have a problem with the business of sale and manufacturing of diving/spearfishing gear in general?

Lets make this painfully clear. The idea that just because of a pulley a speargun becomes more powerful is STUPID. It will not be the first nor last time people accept something without seriously questioning it. But if after being explained in detail they still stick to their erroneous belief, that makes them stupid. Chuckd prefers to use a roller, he enjoys it and I celebrate that, I would not down talk his choice of a fish taking tool. But he knows it's not more powerful than a conventional speargun of the same length and would not promote that idea. What I do have a problem with is stupidity.

You post the same redderick over and over, at least when it comes to roller spearguns. Post or don't post it's your choice, just expect to be called out.

Quote from seal

I think its fair to compare single to single or double to double.

Confused and trying hard to confuse others.

Quote from Chase

You should consider the fact that a single roller system can use 2 sets of bands with 2 separate wishbones. Therefore, a double set of rollers can have 4 separate bands with 4 wishbones total.

Correct.

Quote from Chuckd

Dan, I wasn't going to do a penetration test. I assume with the same weight shaft, the penetration should be proportional to the velocity ratio. Penetration is really momentum which is mass times velocity.

Thanks again Charlie for taking the time to do this. You are of course correct about the velocity being enough of an indicator. The problem is getting the guns firing at exactly the same time which results in misinterpreted results like George.

I can reason through it though, especially because of the 2nd slow motion segment. Even though the roller shot first, both shafts appear to travel at the same speed or at least very close. It is evident that the roller IS NOT more powerful than a conventional speargun of the same length. Which supports what I said at the beginning of the thread. I actually expected it to have a little less power, but probably this is not a significant enough difference to be visible. Where is the maximum power anchoring point on the bottom of your roller?

You think that because the roller in the 2nd segment fired first. There does appear to be a little less recoil for the roller as expected.

Thank you Charlie.

Is there going to be a penetration test? That's the only way to visually settle this debate.

What is the diameter of the band on the roller? What is the length of the two bands on the MGS? What is the length of the two bands on the roller?

For anyone getting confused again about what we're comparing, Chuckd has it exactly right, apples to apples as long as the bands are the same diamter.

Interestingly the Unicorn filefish is one of only 3 species that are an exception in its category (filefish/triggerfish) and as such is not considered ornamental and is legal to spear in Florida. I've never eaten Unicorn filefish but I have taken filefish in another part of the world and they are good eats. The flesh is similar to Ocean triggerfish and there are no bones. The fillets are thin as you can imagine.

I've also taken Trunkfish and Hank is correct in that there's 3 strips of flesh that are good to eat. But they're really small relative to the rest of the fish and I'd feel bad discarding so much of it, so I would not take them again unless I was in serious need of food.

Chopa (Chub) are :yucky: but I suppose anything cooked right will be palatable.

Alan, on paper I don't think you're thin enough for a Large - long size. I'd try a Speardiver suit size 3XL.

Please send me a message through spearfishing.store. Include your height and weight.

That's not practical. In any case part of the recoil will go into muzzle rise.

My thoughts exactly, there would need to be a significant increase in power to make the roller worth messing with. But I'll stick to my guns (no pun intended) and my original point which is it will not be more powerful at all. Unlike a complex pulley system a single pulley doesn't multiply force, all it does is change the direction of the pull.

BTW Harry I was going through my odds and ends closet and saw an 80cm enclosed track wood stock that I built 5 years ago and never finished. It was to settle a debate between us about whether a pneumatic gun is more powerful than a band gun of the same length. Those were the pre Abellan days

Recoil is subjective, there's no way to measure it. In any case less recoil equals more power so it will add up to the same thing, more penetration.

Quote from Dude george

Hummm wonder what will happen if Dan is proven wrong???

George agent provocateur Keep in mind that for me to be right all that has to be demonstrated is that the roller speargun will not have more penetration at the same distance.