Posts by Bulit 7

Quote from spearstuff

I had the chance to read those emails...

First Grogan tried to get DW to give him money/gear for "advertising", DW said no thanks the benefit is not worth the cost, in retaliation Grogan said he will delete any posts made by DW or any member of spearboard that can be considered promotional for Wong Products.

This is how Grogan treats every company on spearboard. He uses this blackmailing technique to get free money and gear.

Additionally Grogan asks for the same large amount of money regardless if that company only sells 50 products a year or if it sells 1 million. Daryl Wong points this out in the email. Of course Grogan ignores this fact and follows through with his threat of censorship.

Grogan's spearboard policy effectively censors all small business on spearboard, only the largest spearfishing companies can afford his high rates. But Grogan still gets his free gear/money from the bigger companies so he doesn't care how much he screws over all the small companies on spearboard.

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I see...

What was bewildering to me was the fact that i told him what my cash rate was. His disapointment when he realized that he would not be able to fix his boat for free was obvious. He started accusing me of backing out, that we had a "deal", that my wife was controlling me. All actions of a dasperate, broke ass ~`~`~`~`tard. Why not justpay for the needed services like any other honorable person? Keyword here: honorable.

What amazes me is how addicting the self validation derived from internet interactions via public forums can be. We all get sucked into it at one time or another. I remember Dan telling me that there is a learning curve. Some get it and some dont. Personally i like BM. Its sad the way he is pursued and ridiculed but we bring this shit on ourselves to a great extent. Some learn, some dont...

This is a good bypass Dan.

Who needs thousnds of lurkers anyway. They bring nothing to the site and get free usefull info without having to put forth any effort. I think you have a good system. Less is more.

Quote from nsearch

None of what has been posted surprises me. Especially after I was forwarded the email exchange between him and Daryl Wong.

Lee - very professional, well done bro. The wife comment was off the chart, what a m'f'er.

His strong arm tactics into advertising and prizes for his tournament are beginning to shine through, little by little. The forum is the only kingdom he has control over so the censorship will continue until he's bought out.

Thanks for the comment

It would be interesting to see the DW emails. Just for comparisson and parallels.;)

No, never paid me.
Rolo nailed it. Passive agressive undertones... Yep.
SB became like a giant snowball and Tony is riding it as far and high as it will take him.
I suggest that anyone still there pm links to this section to any and all members that he can. It is the only way to expose this guy.

I cant put a lean unless we had a contract that specified such a recourse. Im a old school person and consider myself tto have integrity. We didnt even have an agreement. I expected that as friends, we could work itout to our mutual agreement. As usual, i am not a good judge of charachter.

Luckily, people are starting to see thru his bs. The fact that Riffe pulled the sponsorship without so much as a reason why, says a lot.

I like the idea that there is a section in SD to expose his underhanded tactics. If this is how he treats a friend, one can only imagine what else goes on...

Frankly, I'm glad to be out of there. I could go back under an anonymous username but why?

Jim,

What really gets me is the fact that Tony's flyer clearly states that the rate for tier 2 is $730. He proceeds to tell me that $730 is for cash, when working on a trade the rate is $1500. I proceed to tell him what the cash value of my invoice is and he tells me that since it is a trade, my rate is still $1500. Well, then how about this: Pay me in cash for my invoice and I will turn that cash back over to you!

It is an underhanded technique to devalue my work and sell me more advertising in order to resolve the $2k of maintenance that his boat needs.

By the tone of his emails and the pressure he put on, it is obvious that he is upset that he could not pressure me into the deal and thus lost the best mechanic he has ever come across and basically ended his possibility of working with me again, all the while spinning it as though I backed out.

Just thought you should know. Do with this info what you want. Feel free to tell him I disclosed these emails. I dont care. Nothing I wrote is not something I would not state in public.

This is not how one does business and this is definitely not how one does business with friends.

I dont expect to be paid on my invoice. It has been written off since Tony's unscrupulous tactics pretty much have determined that outcome.

Lee

The above text is a letter I sent Jim(jfjf) regarding my dealings with Grogan.

If this is customary treatment of sponsors, I can see why Riffe pulled their sponsorship from his site.

When Dan called it a Monopoly, he nailed it.

How does it feel Grogan? To have your bullshit out in the open for everyone to see? Fukin creep.

On 5/23/2011 1:22 PM, Atlantic Offshore Yacht Services wrote:
Dear Tony :

This invoice concludes the work done to date.

If you require a written estimate for the additional repairs and maintenance to the CAT 3126, please let me know. I rather not type it up if you are not going ahead with the work.

Also, as discussed, I have reached my limit as far as work I can do on an advertising exchange with Spearboard. Going forward my rate for any additional work is $95 per hour check or charge and $85 per hour cash as discussed.

Since the tier 2 advertising is $730 and the invoice amount is $859.99, $129.00 less than the amount of the invoice, please let me know what you wish to do about the difference.

Sincerely,

Lee Mendonca
Atlantic Offshore Yacht Services
(invoice attatched)
____________________________________________________________
9:31am
Hi Lee,

That $730 amount is the cash price as we discussed. The trade-out price is $1,500 for Tier 2. If you prefer to stay at Tier 1, let me know. We have a rule and tier policy about links and banner ads in signatures. It came up from other marketers such as Setting steel and Addiction Spears. Tier 1 will not allow that signature banner ad to be done.

FYI, Tony
____________________________________________________________________
10:21am

Tony,

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

I can't make this work for me at a rate of $1500. The cost to results ratio for advertising a services oriented business with such a narrow target audience, like mine (i.e. Fraction of Florida East) Coast) just does not justify nor can absorb such an investment.

Additionally, my business is services oriented and the difference between "cash" and "charge" is $85 - $95 per hour(as explained to you) and your calculation should be based on that. I do not have a 100% markup or higher on my invoices and if you need to know what the cash value of my invoice is, I will recalculate it for you as soon as I get back to my office.

Also, a tier 1 spot is of no interest to me. It hardly does anything to promote my type of company.

Let me know what your thoughts are on the matter and let's try to make this work for both of us. I don't want business to get in the way of our friendship.

Regards, Lee
Lee Mendonca
(561) 670-9660
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
___________________________________________________________
10:46am
Hi Lee,

I sell my personal hourly services too as a consultant to companies. The cost of my time in actual cash outlay is zero. I have already paid you cash for your fuel which I had not anticipated having to do, but that is OK with me.

From day one I told you the value of the marketing you are doing was a multiple of Tier 2 which I have graciously given for free for a long time.

We entered into this arrangement as a pure trade-out and you appear to be quitting halfway through the deal. Is that what you are saying or am I reading your e-mail wrong?

Tony
Sent by Tony Grogan via BlackBerry
___________________________________________________________

11:18am
Tony.
What I'm saying is that I can't work on your boat in trade anymore than I have. I am not quitting. When I got into this, we did not discuss cost and we did not discuss how much of my labor I would be able to front in exchange.

Regardless of what your labor charges are, my labor is $85 cash pmt per hour. That translates to cash in my pocket. Simple as that. I don't work for any less.

As much as I'd like to help you out with your boat, going forward, I need to be paid for my services. Never did I agree that I would front you unlimited services for advertising and as a matter of fact, I told you Friday, in person, that I reached my limit in what I am able to spend.

I don't find it fair that you are bringing up any past allowance of advertising on SB because: 1st. Others have been allowed the same privileges. 2nd. You should have stopped it and told me there was a cost associated with it. It isn't fair to bill me after the fact. And let me tell you that I booked two jobs from ads in SB.(Hector and Dive4bugs)
I understand and appreciate your generosity, though.

If you can find a way to make this work, please let me know. If not, as far as I am concerned we part as friends from this business venture.

Lee
______________________________________________________________________

11:41am
Lee, I am sorry to hear this turn about. I thought you had more business sense. Is your wife pressuring you? I would be happy to explain the deal to her if necessary. Tony
Sent by Tony Grogan via BlackBerry
___________________________________________________________
12:03pm
Tony.

You are dealing with me. What does my wife have to do with this? I speak for myself. You have failed to convince ME! I don't appreciate you writing such nonsense to my business email that always forwards a copy to her BBerry as well since she responds to and follows up with my customers. If you need to get personal in conversation, please save it for when we talk in person.

Like I told you Friday, in person: I can't invest any more time into something that brings me no returns.

If you have a business plan for my company that is going to produce results in the order of 1000% on my investment(hell, even 500% !) I'm all ears.
______________________________________________________________
12:20pm
Ok Lee - I will get someone else to do the remaining work. We can call it even since you insist on quitting halfway to the $1,500 Tier 2 level.

This is disappointing Lee. Unrealistic 500+% ROI expectations may be the fundamental problem. Where can you get that kind of a promised return? Maybe on Spearboard, but without a promise.

Contrary to your assertion in a prior e-mail, you are investing almost zero dollars of cash. The down time through under employment should be thought of as low cost marketing consideration, not opportunity cost of cash-paying work not done.

In fact, you went to other clients and did not lose any work to the best of my knowledge while making the time-only investment in your marketing program.

I have done similar investments of my time when work was slow. And, I never backed out of a deal like you are doing now.

Let's just remain friends, Tony
Sent by Tony Grogan via BlackBerry
_____________________________________________________________________

1:00pm
Sounds to me like strong arm tactics Tony.

I never agreed to anything. Instead, I extended you credit and figured we could discuss the details after the fact. I repaired your engine and even worked extra late to get you up and running without charging overtime. How am I backing out? Did we have a contract? Or even a verbal agreement?

Business might have been slow a couple of months ago but I am slammed now. I just can not justify pouring $1500 into something that at best will break me even.

At the rate proposed by you, I am no longer interested in being a SB sponsor. Please remove me from your list of sponsors and clean up all the advertising from my account. Additionally mail me a check for my services in the amount of $859.59. If you wish to pay in cash I will be glad to adjust the invoice.
Lee Mendonca
(561) 670-9660
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
____________________________________________________________________
1:06pm
Incredible Lee, just unbelievable.

What is wrong?
Sent by Tony Grogan via BlackBerry
___________________________________________________________________
1:43pm
What is wrong?
Besides the fact that you insulted me and used these strong arm tactics in an attempt to get me to spend more of my time(=money)to repair your boat? Not much.
Guess I should have negotiated/signed a contract before working on your boat. Silly me
____________________________________________________________________
1:53pm
Yes - we had a verbal agreement. Yes - I sent you rates by e-mail that show the trade-out required for Tier 2
Yes - we talked about it extensively.

Lee, surprises like the last minute request for gas money popped up, but I paid it anyway.

If this is how you deal with the business side of Atlantic Offshore, I think you will have issues with other customers going forward. But, I do wish you lots of success.

Call it what you like, you are stopping doing additional work under our arrangement. That's ok - I'd rather know now than find out in the middle of the next project like the coolant system flush. Any of the remaining work could be done in slow times for your schedule.

Since you did approximately 50% of the tier 2 level, you can have one year of Tier 1 or 6 months of Tier 2 starting June 1.

I wish you the best of luck and happy hunting.

Peace brother.

Thanks, Tony
Sent by Tony Grogan via BlackBerry
_______________________________________________________________________
2:57pm
No we did not have a verbal agreement Tony. My understanding of a verbal agreement is when two parties discuss and agree to the terms of the agreement. That never happened.
Whatever email you said you sent on Friday am, I never got. The first I heard of rates was when we spoke in person on Friday eve. As a matter of fact, when I asked you if I would get a banner, you said " no I wouldnt because the rate for my tier was 700 asn something and a banner tier would run $3600". Did you forget?? Did you also conveniently forget what we discussed Friday and how I told you that I had reached my spending limit in what I could offer to spend in trade for add space?
Cmon Tony, dont insult my intelligence, but most importantly, stop insulting yourself. I dont call that a verbal agreement. I call it a sales pitch that did not pan out for you because the product offered and the price asked did not seem advantageous to me and my company. Simple capitalism at work. The fact that you are calling it a verbal agreement raises a big red flag to an underhanded tactic.
Cmon, you are a businessman. You know what an agreement is.
I knew there was the slight chance that we could disagree on this and it was a risk I took by fronting you work without a contract.
Like I said, your advertising rates are too high for me. They may work for the spearfishing industry that targets all your readers. I would only be advertising to a sliver of your audience. Not interested in sponsorship so please cancel my act immediately.
As far as I am concerned, you owe me for that invoice, minus the $50 for gas.
_______________________________________
Tony :

Your invoice is attached.

This is the cash value of my invoice. It is the money you would pay me in cash if we did not have an agreement. My rate is not half of that as suggested by you. If you were to pay me for my services, this is what you would pay. Why would I work for anything less?

I strongly feel that you should have charged me the $730 for tier 2 because this is the cash value. I do not work for half my rate.

To strong arm me, call me a quitter, insult me by insinuating that my wife makes the decisions, question my integrity is way out of line.

I have deleted all my advertising on your site. I do not like to be coerced into working at discounted rates.

Additionally, you can not back charge me for advertising that was done on your site with your permission at no charge and use it to apply for payment towards my invoice.

Consider this letter a demand for payment.

Thank you for your business .

Sincerely,

Lee Mendonca
Atlantic Offshore Yacht Services



NO FURTHER REPLIES.

Yeah by spear. Sorry, did not get a chance to follow up on this.
In the meantime here's another pic unrelated to this fish.

no doubt. especially if the bottom is coral

I'll try to find some stuff on it, Marco.

Quote from nsearch

Well said. The two sports actually go well together; when the weather is good for surf then the vis usually sucks and offshore can still be risky. When the weather is good for diving then it's flat and the boards are collecting dust.

Great pics, love the shaping room images. At 46 and still paddling out at Waimea, can't ask for much else.

For sure!

Quote from hill raiser

cool stuff. That dude on the right is looking like "damn, i best not say anything."

LOfukinL! They are all friends. A Howllie wud have a hard time pullin that off!:laughing3:

FB friend posted this one up...

Quote from hank

Care to elaborate?

Surfing can be so pure....but there is that adrenaline issue. When I would drive to the beach, thinking it was going to be decent.....and it was flat or totally blown out, well, "might as well go get drunk". The anticipated high of surfing had to be replaced by something.

Yep, I can relate!:laughing3:

Quote from behslayer

46yrs old and still charging. Nice Boards! Those big ones look like they would go well at Giant Uluwatu. We had one day this year which was pretty intense.. 15-18ft backs glassy perfection and lined up for hundreds of yards. If you like surf have a look in the Gallery on the Ulusub.com website. There's a few shots I've taken over the years.

I will check it out! Glassy 18 foot backs sounds epic!

Quote from Don Paul

Nice... surfing is something I only did once, the spero in me could only handle one addiction.;)

Cheers, Don

I used to surf a lot tillI hit 17. Then, all my available cash went for dive gear! I still grab the board and head for the beach when the surf is just right.

Not bad ...

Some summer boards...