Syntactic foam as a gun building material

  • If you saw Griswold's post on the new wahoo gun that he is working on, you may have caught his mention of "syntactic". This is a material that we have been playing with for a couple of years now, and is the core material that we used for most of our carbon fiber guns.


    Regular foams, like the two part polyurethane foams, consist of air bubbles trapped in rigid polyurethane. They have an obvious limitation in that the air bubbles can break, and saturate with water. This can happen even in the foam floatation of boats, so you can imagine that the problem could be even worse at the increased water pressure when diving. As the foam absorbs more water, it loses buoyancy, which is usually the thing it was supposed to provide in the first place. Heavier density foams are more resistant, but not bulletproof.


    Enter syntactic foam. Syntactic foam gets its buoyancy from tiny hollow glass spheres (sometimes called micro balloons) mixed in an epoxy resin. Glass has very high compressive strength, and the uniform spherical shape of the micro balloons makes syntactic foam crush proof to amazing depths. This is the stuff that they use to provide buoyancy on deep sea submersibles, and floatation buoys for deep oil drilling applications. Depending on the types of resin, and size / thickness of the glass spheres, it can hold its shape at thousands of feet deep. The advantages in gun making are clear - The spheres don't absorb water, and the epoxy will never rot.


    We experimented with quite a few different versions of the stuff. The Polywood product from Industrial Polymers http://www.industrialpolymers.…id_casting_urethanes.html is a mix and pour material that can be used to fill tubes, hollow handles, etc. It has a specific gravity of about 0.53, which means that it is only slightly lighter than teak. But it cuts and machines well, so it's a nice option for filling an odd shapped space.


    We made some syntactic of our own for a while, using 16 lb density polyurethane foam and ceramic microspheres. It works, and it's inexpensive, but it is definately not as stiff as the real deal.


    Later, we used some pre-fabricated blocks from CRG at http://www.crgrp.com/syntactics.shtml. This is the stuff that we used to shape the core for most of our carbon fiber guns, and for the tube on my current hybrid gun. When cut into a long slender shape, it is not quite as stiff as teak. But it is considerably lighter with a specific gravity of around 0.45. That is important when using the carbon fiber, because the CF is quite a bit heavier than wood. The syntactic cuts very nicely with wood working tools, though the glass beads are abrasive and will dull blades quickly. Because it is an epoxy resin, it bonds very well with the epoxy saturated carbon fiber cloth that we laid up around it. It holds screws and other fasteners surprisingly well, about like soft pine. For areas that see higher stresses, like around the trigger mechanism or reel mount, we typically use a piece of delrin embeded in the syntactic for extra strength.


    Syntactic is not as strong as wood when it comes to bending, so it could never replace wood on its own. But that was not an issue for our carbon fiber guns. We just needed something to define the shape. Once cured, the carbon fiber does all the work. The syntactic is definately not a perfect material. But for certain applications, it sure is a nice tool to have in the box.


    At one point, Chad and I were very careful and considered our use of the syntactic materials to be our little secret. But building guns is not something that we do to feed our kids, so the time seemed right to share.

  • Thanks for sharing, I've been curious about what you were using for a couple of years now. So to understand clearly; for a simple application like filling a tube for the purposes of a little added rigidity, eliminating any space for water intrusion, and as a means to anchor something with screws, you use a pour in version of this material? Is it too expensive to fill a float the size of a lifeguard float?

  • Thanks for sharing, I've been curious about what you were using for a couple of years now. So to understand clearly; for a simple application like filling a tube for the purposes of a little added rigidity, eliminating any space for water intrusion, and as a means to anchor something with screws, you use a pour in version of this material?


    Right.


    Is it too expensive to fill a float the size of a lifeguard float?


    It would be both too expensive, and too heavy for that. Remember that the specific gravity is 0.53. If your lifeguard can has 30 lbs of buoyancy, then it will take about 16 lbs of syntactic to fill it, which doesn't leave much buoyancy left.

  • What other spheres(material and sizes) have you used/tried with the foam???


    I'll have to dig around when I get home. I think the only thing that we tried were the ceramic spheres, but I don't recall the specs or where we got them. For our types of applications, the lightest duty ones are still plenty strong.

  • Does it need to be exposed to air to dry? If you're pouring into a tube how does the first/bottom part dry? How long does it take?


    If I didn't mix the right amount and have to top it up afterwards, will the new material adhere well to the one I poured first?


    If I filled a speargun tube with it do you still recommend plugs at both ends to prevent any chance of rot?

  • It's a two-part mixture, like epoxy. You do need to mix the two parts accurately to get the optimum properites, but there is no "drying" in the manner that paint or varnish dry. The two parts combine in a chemical reaction.


    I forget how long it takes to cure. It's probably temperature dependant, but I think Chad generally leaves it overnight.


    The polyurethane resin is never going to rot. I don't know if it might degrade from UV exposure if it were unprotected, though. If you filled a speargun barrel, I see no reason why you would want to re-install the barrel plugs. Big difference in buoyancy from air filled barrel to filled with something that is slightly lighter than wood.

  • Will it float the carbon tube, muzzle, bands, handle, and trigger mech?


    That all depends on the geometry, but most of the time you would need some wood around it somewhere. One of Chad's signature "hot dog buns", or a hybrid arrangement.


    The carbon fiber tube that I made for my hybrid uses the block material, not the Polywood. The tube is 1-3/8" in diameter, with 1/8" thick walls, and it floats with a little room to spare. My Delrin muzzle adds little weight, as does my delrin handle. But an aluminum handle would be heavier. Same thing with the trigger mech. The neptoncis reelf is relatively light in weight, compared to the Kitto M7, for example.


    I have an excel spreadsheet that I use to plan out a gun before I make the first cut. It's not perfect, but it will tell me if I have a major problem with total buoyancy. The biggest problem with a thin cross section is usually balance (nose heavy).

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