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The only one I've ever used was Chad's, so my perspective may be skewed a wee bit. I only shot twice, but it went right where I told it to. I guess my thought is that if I can keep the cost of the stock and tube reasonable, then everything else can be pulled off and re-used on a new build if I don't like the way it turns out.

As I evolve, I will freedive whenever my skills and the conditions allow. Since my allowable take of snapper has been reduced from 4 to 0 through May, and gag grouper from 5 to 2, I'll be a lot more selective about the fish I shoot as well, and will spend more time hunting Cobia and AJs. The annual migration of cobia off the Northwest Florida coast usually produces a few fish of 90 lbs or better, so there is always that possibilty on the nearshore wrecks.

I think that he also said that the tube inside a tube design left sharp edges that destroyed dyneema wishbones. And although his muzzle was beautiful, it had to be large enough to fit on the outside of the tube because of the dowel within. My tube will be hollow at the end, so that the muzzle can be as small as the tube diameter. Nice touch with the little stainless piece between the end of the tube and the trigger mech, though.

I am rethinking the idea of running the tube all the way to the mech. I'll have to do some calculations to see how that affects the balance of the gun.

Yes, but I believe that he also said that it left sharp edges that really chewed through dynema wishbones. He built a muzzle that was beautiful, but larger because it had to fit around the outside of the tube because of the dowel inside. My tube will be thicker walled, but hollow at the end, so I can create a more streamlined muzzle, no larger than the tube itself.

I'm going to do some figuring and see how the balance of my design would be affected if I ran the tube all the way to the back. There is really no reason for the rear of the track to be enclosed, and it would eliminate the tube/wood joint as a potential weak spot.

Very sleek lines. I see that he raised the handle a little. But I'm envisionining something with a little more mass. I think that most hybrids look the same because they are limited to what they can do with the tube. I'm not sure that I'm ready to tackle an elliptical tube because it would be hard to fit into the wood, but the 1-3/8'" with a deep open track should help get the shaft and handle closer together, which can only help, I think?

Interesting how he ran the tube all the way through the gun.

Quote from hau

Tin Man---Sorry, i forgot how you dive. Will this be a freedive or scuba gun gun please?

Some of both, I hope.

As for not being real euros, nor real tree trunks, I think that is the idea. In theory, they combine the best of both. Gone wrong, you get the worst of both, I suspect.

And I'll freely admit that some of the attraction is just to see if I can do it, and do it well. But for those who have used them and dislike them, what specifically turned you off? Is it something that could be fixed with a better thought out design, or a few minor changes to better suit your diving style? Or is there some inherrent flaw that you cannot see as fixable?

I need a "mid water" gun for hunting cobia, amberjack, and taking longer shots on wary snapper. I find myself intrigued by the idea of building a hybrid. I have never built or even shot a hybrid, and I know that some love them and some hate them. So I would like any input about things you like, or don't like about them. I have a few ideas that I think would generally be improvements, and I'll try to post a sketch later. Starting with:

I'll make the tube myself. Using the techniques that Chad and I have used on our larger carbon fiber guns, I can make a tube 1-3/8" in diameter, but with an open track molded in the top, and filled with the core material we use to add a little mass. The 1-3/8" tube and 5/16" shaft, with an integral open track, is the same height as a much smaller 1-1/8" tube with a shaft sitting in a cheap stuck on plastic track, but double the strength. So side to side tracking should be the same as a smaller tube, with vertical tracking just a little slower. Wall thickness will be a bullet-proof 1/8", including under the track.

An enclosed delrin track in the wood section, slightly raised to allow the use of hard wishbones if I want. Sloped sides on the stock to keep the bands from piling up on top and in the way of good sight picture.

Fully enclosed Delrin muzzle with holes for up to 3 bands of either 9/16" or 5/8" diameter.

A cut out in the bottom of the wood stock to raise the handle more inline with the shaft and band pull. Why don't all the hybrids do this?

Overall length would be 58" or so, and I have calculated the weight to be just over 8-lbs. Every so slightly nose heavy with a short shaft, but able to handle 12" of overhang without a problem. The key to this is the slightly larger tube with greater volume.

Any and all constructive criticisms or suggestions are welcome. It's only on paper now, so this is the time for changes!

Interesting. The shape reminds me a little of the handles that Dan has made for his guns.

I think you have it. Instinctive shooting probably has a lot to do with muscle memory. We don't consciously decide that the the gun is aimed properly, but it just "feels" right. As for myself, I suspect that I'm probably a less than average marksman. But most of my shots happen so fast in our poor vis, that I really don't know how I would do if I had time to try and line up a good shot.

None of which explains what the longer shaft overhang really does . . .

If it doesn't have anything to do with aiming, then it must have a physical effect on the flight of the shaft, or the reaction of the gun.

That may be part of it, but I'm not convinced that's the whole explanation. Many people will also say that they shoot by instinct, which would seem to me to make shaft overhang irrelevant as an aiming aid. When I think of shooting by instinct, I think of an archer shooting an old English longbow with no sights whatsoever. Or the guy who trick shoots skeet while holding the shotgun upside down or behind his back. Totally by instinct.

I wonder if there are some ergonomic and physical factors as well. A heavy rifle is much easier to shoot accurately than a light one, because the mass helps dampen the little twitches and tremors of wobbly hands. I wonder if more shaft overhang makes a gun a little more nose heavy, requiring a more consistant wrist force, and therefore easier to hold steady.

I also wonder if additional mass at the muzzle, like you said earlier, helps to dampen muzzle flip.

Quote from Wood Guy

Tin Man:

I was thinking about clamping in drill press with the right sized forstner. Might not be deep enough or accurate enough, though. My lathe would probably only handle about 20" if I had a forstner in the tailstock. How long would yours handle?

Forstner is probably the way to go, but I think it would take a bit of effort to jig it up square in a drill press. I don't know how you would drill such a long piece on the lathe with a bit in the tailstock, unless you build some sort of support for the overhung (away from the headstock) end of the square blank.

Two possibilities:

1. Good - Mount the block to the carriage of the lathe, while turning the Forstner in the headstock - Would take a while to get it indicated straight, and shimmed for height, but would be a solid setup with a high degree of accuracy

2 Better - Time for a right angle milling head! That would truly make everything simple, and highly accurate. In addition, if you wanted to use a pipe or tube that didn't quite match a standard Forstner diameter, you could use a long-shank flycutter to get the bore perfect. These take standard R8 collets.

prices are all over the map, but you can get an import on Ebay for a reasonable amount.

Edit - Matt showed a picture of drilling a blank, but I think that most hybrids are constructed by routing a half round in each half of a stock, and then gluing them toghether with the tube in place.

Pucho

Been pondering this myself. I'm Guessing the blank would be about 2" to 2-1/4" square by about 24" long, and needing a hole about 1-1/8" diameter by about 8"-12" deep. But it's got to be dead-nuts straight.

Shaft size?

I haven't actually tried the Shapelock plastic on the Neptonics frame, but it looks like it would work great if you like the general shape of the Neptonics handle. I know Dan likes more rake (angle) but that's another thread . . . :poke:

Anyway, the shapelock is available from www.shapelock.com. The smallest size is 250g for $15, and that's enough to do about three handles. It sticks easily and bonds completely to itself, but will not stick to metal. So the skeleton of the Neptonics frame should work great, because the two halves of the shapelock (one on each side of the frame) can stick to each other in the middle and will be solidly locked in place.

The Shapelock comes only in white. To color it, use a tiny bead (about the size of a pencil eraser) of the dye paste that West Marine sells to color epoxy. You just heat up the Shapelock pellets until they stick together in a porous mass. Then add the dye, and knead it over and over until the color is uniform. Don't worry, the dye washes off your hands with soap and water.

To make the marbled look, start with a large piece of colored shapelock like that above. Then take a smaller piece (about a big spoonful) of white. Heat it up, and roll it out on wax paper into a long thread. Wrap the white thread randomly around your larger colored piece. Heat the two up together, and fold in half a couple of times to slightly blend the colors. The more you knead them together, the more uniformly they will blend, and the less contrast between the two colors. You can kind of see this on Wood Guy's handle, where one side has more distinct black/white, and one side has them a little more blended together.

There is no doubt that a custom carved and fitted wood handle is prettier. But the shapelock only requires a few minutes and a pot of hot water, so it lends itself well to those with limited time or tooling.

I must admit, they are beautiful guns. I love the sweeping lines, which makes me appreciate the craftmanship even more because can see how they are more difficult to make.

This is where my dad got his trailer, though it was for a VERY much smaller boat:

http://www.championtrailers.com/TRAILERS.htm

The largest that I saw listed was for 28' and 9800 lbs, but they have a good catalog and are pretty knowlegable. Might be worth a call to pick their brains and see what your options might be.

That's a load. Make sure it's street legal before you get deep into a trailer search. Laws vary by state, but usually the limit is 8'-6" or 9'-0" max width to trailer without a "wide load" permit.

Home made all the way.

Sometimes I get a little carried away . . .

I think that my new 57" gun is going to have a muzzle very similar to the one that I made for my 45" Bay gun. It's not as elaborate as the one for the carbon fiber gun, but I like the clean lines. That Delrin is nearly indestructable, so I can confidently make the muzzle smaller than I would with teak. I think the extra weight of the Delrin at the end of the gun helps manage recoil a little as well.

I bought the material from www.mcmaster.com. I'm sure that it is available in sheet form as well, but the stoppers are a pretty cost effective way to buy a small piece. You would probably want one of the three larger sizes. The part numbers and sizes are:

9545k81 - $6.03 3-17/32" diameter (small end) by 2-15/16" diameter (large end) by 1-17/32" thick
9545k85 - $8.60 4-1/16" by 3-9/32" by 1-17/32 thick
9545k87 - $13.71 5" by 3-17/32" by 1-31/32" thick

The material is for laboratory stoppers, used in all kinds of chemical services, so I don't think that it requires a coating to protect it. Strictly for looks. It really doesn't look quite that gray, though. I'll try to post a pic without the flash to show the difference.

The carbon fiber gun was one that Chad and I donated as a raffle prize to raise money for the FRA back in the spring. This was for a guy who like to freeshaft on scuba, if you are wondering about the extra shafts. Specs were:

57" overall
5/16" Delrin enclosed track
Triple layered carbon fiber construction
Super smooth Kitto M6 Trigger mechanism
Custom delrin shaft holders
Re-moldable handle grip on a solid Delrin frame
Adjustable spring resetting line release
Shaped rubber butt pad

Here are a few more shots:

Quote from pargo

A more recent gun huh!

Just a little something Chad and I recently completed. <img src= " height="23" srcset="https://spearfishing.world/forum/images/smilies/emojione/1f606@2x.png 2x">

I think there are still some scraps from that butt pad on my scroll saw table. I'll have to play with them and see if I can find any kind of coating to shine them up.