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    Will it float the carbon tube, muzzle, bands, handle, and trigger mech?


    That all depends on the geometry, but most of the time you would need some wood around it somewhere. One of Chad's signature "hot dog buns", or a hybrid arrangement.


    The carbon fiber tube that I made for my hybrid uses the block material, not the Polywood. The tube is 1-3/8" in diameter, with 1/8" thick walls, and it floats with a little room to spare. My Delrin muzzle adds little weight, as does my delrin handle. But an aluminum handle would be heavier. Same thing with the trigger mech. The neptoncis reelf is relatively light in weight, compared to the Kitto M7, for example.


    I have an excel spreadsheet that I use to plan out a gun before I make the first cut. It's not perfect, but it will tell me if I have a major problem with total buoyancy. The biggest problem with a thin cross section is usually balance (nose heavy).

    It's a two-part mixture, like epoxy. You do need to mix the two parts accurately to get the optimum properites, but there is no "drying" in the manner that paint or varnish dry. The two parts combine in a chemical reaction.


    I forget how long it takes to cure. It's probably temperature dependant, but I think Chad generally leaves it overnight.


    The polyurethane resin is never going to rot. I don't know if it might degrade from UV exposure if it were unprotected, though. If you filled a speargun barrel, I see no reason why you would want to re-install the barrel plugs. Big difference in buoyancy from air filled barrel to filled with something that is slightly lighter than wood.

    Thanks for sharing, I've been curious about what you were using for a couple of years now. So to understand clearly; for a simple application like filling a tube for the purposes of a little added rigidity, eliminating any space for water intrusion, and as a means to anchor something with screws, you use a pour in version of this material?


    Right.


    Is it too expensive to fill a float the size of a lifeguard float?


    It would be both too expensive, and too heavy for that. Remember that the specific gravity is 0.53. If your lifeguard can has 30 lbs of buoyancy, then it will take about 16 lbs of syntactic to fill it, which doesn't leave much buoyancy left.

    If you saw Griswold's post on the new wahoo gun that he is working on, you may have caught his mention of "syntactic". This is a material that we have been playing with for a couple of years now, and is the core material that we used for most of our carbon fiber guns.


    Regular foams, like the two part polyurethane foams, consist of air bubbles trapped in rigid polyurethane. They have an obvious limitation in that the air bubbles can break, and saturate with water. This can happen even in the foam floatation of boats, so you can imagine that the problem could be even worse at the increased water pressure when diving. As the foam absorbs more water, it loses buoyancy, which is usually the thing it was supposed to provide in the first place. Heavier density foams are more resistant, but not bulletproof.


    Enter syntactic foam. Syntactic foam gets its buoyancy from tiny hollow glass spheres (sometimes called micro balloons) mixed in an epoxy resin. Glass has very high compressive strength, and the uniform spherical shape of the micro balloons makes syntactic foam crush proof to amazing depths. This is the stuff that they use to provide buoyancy on deep sea submersibles, and floatation buoys for deep oil drilling applications. Depending on the types of resin, and size / thickness of the glass spheres, it can hold its shape at thousands of feet deep. The advantages in gun making are clear - The spheres don't absorb water, and the epoxy will never rot.


    We experimented with quite a few different versions of the stuff. The Polywood product from Industrial Polymers http://www.industrialpolymers.…id_casting_urethanes.html is a mix and pour material that can be used to fill tubes, hollow handles, etc. It has a specific gravity of about 0.53, which means that it is only slightly lighter than teak. But it cuts and machines well, so it's a nice option for filling an odd shapped space.


    We made some syntactic of our own for a while, using 16 lb density polyurethane foam and ceramic microspheres. It works, and it's inexpensive, but it is definately not as stiff as the real deal.


    Later, we used some pre-fabricated blocks from CRG at http://www.crgrp.com/syntactics.shtml. This is the stuff that we used to shape the core for most of our carbon fiber guns, and for the tube on my current hybrid gun. When cut into a long slender shape, it is not quite as stiff as teak. But it is considerably lighter with a specific gravity of around 0.45. That is important when using the carbon fiber, because the CF is quite a bit heavier than wood. The syntactic cuts very nicely with wood working tools, though the glass beads are abrasive and will dull blades quickly. Because it is an epoxy resin, it bonds very well with the epoxy saturated carbon fiber cloth that we laid up around it. It holds screws and other fasteners surprisingly well, about like soft pine. For areas that see higher stresses, like around the trigger mechanism or reel mount, we typically use a piece of delrin embeded in the syntactic for extra strength.


    Syntactic is not as strong as wood when it comes to bending, so it could never replace wood on its own. But that was not an issue for our carbon fiber guns. We just needed something to define the shape. Once cured, the carbon fiber does all the work. The syntactic is definately not a perfect material. But for certain applications, it sure is a nice tool to have in the box.


    At one point, Chad and I were very careful and considered our use of the syntactic materials to be our little secret. But building guns is not something that we do to feed our kids, so the time seemed right to share.

    Marco - Those are valid points, and I would agree that the use of the kill spike is certainly a matter of personal preference. Every aspect of gun design is a compromise.


    The only reason that I would build these is to provide something that doesn't seem to be out there already. There are certainly lots of prettier (and cheaper) muzzles available for anyone who doesn't want the spike.

    The muzzle slides flush with the end of the track. The previous pictures were just to show how it fits together.


    Even the muzzle will be wrapped in 2 more layers of carbon. That's why it is a little ugly - At this point the basic shape is all that's needed. It will serve as a form for the carbon layers to come and as solid internal material for the band holes which will be cut through everything.


    The track all the way to the butt really doesn't matter since everything will be wrapped in a couple more layers of carbon fiber before the gun is finished.

    A friend, Brian made some awesome fish prints for me and instead of paying money, I asked if I could make a gun for him - he graciously agreed.


    He and GR apparently had a couple too many doubles in Baja and decided that a super slim 65", mid handle, 9/32" shaft, 3 band, hybrid with an enclosed or semi-enclosed track would make a great wahoo gun.


    Sounded like a interesting challenge, and I had some ideas of how to tweak their plans a little, so I got started today.


    I started out with a 1-1/8" carbon tube filled with syntactic (resin and micro beads which won't absorb water or get crushed) that I had lying around in the shop. I also had a HDPE track from neptonics which I slimmed down on the jointer.


    I cut a dovetail in the carbon tube and syntactic barrel for the HDPE track, leaving the track sticking up about 1/4" above the top of the tube.


    I then cut a 1-1/8" track in a piece of teak for the barrel, leaving some of the carbon tube sticking up above the teak.


    The next step was to shape the teak to my liking. I ended up tapering the sides in and the bottom up in the front. I tapered the sides in, but left the bottom flat in the back (need a little more meat back there for the handle, push rod and trigger mech). I then rounded the bottom edges and chamfered the top edges.


    The muzzle is delrin, machined to fit the inside diameter of the tube and the dovetail of the track. The sides are cut square for the future band holes.


    I added a couple fins on the sides of the back which will be further shaped when dry into a sleek but comfortable butt.


    The next step will be to wrap the entire thing in a uni-directional layer of carbon fiber and then a bi-directional layer of carbon fiber. I think I've figured out a way to make the concave section along the side of the track work out nicely.


    I think it is going to be a nice gun - hope Brian likes it, I know I love the fish prints.


    Here are a few progress pictures

    For what it's worth, 5/8" band will easily fit in 9/16" holes. Wong muzzles have 1/2" holes and they too work for 5/8" bands though it can take a little soap to get them through. As long as it fits, tighter is better IMHO.

    Is it possible to have the band holes drilled for 5/8's bands and slot to slide the bridle (dynema) through ..........Dave


    I could combine the two holes into a single elongated hole, but I do not think it would be possible to cut a slot to insert the dyneema through. I think that would seriously weaken the bottom half of the muzzle, making it prone to break off.

    Unless I make the muzzle larger, I can't lower the rear hole due to the position of the spike, but I could raise the forward hole a little. It will make it off-center of the flatted side, so I think it will look a little out of place. But if you feel there is some performance improvement then I can certainly do it that way.


    Dewasw - Is there a reason why you need a 7mm (0.276") diameter spike? I would prefer to standardize on the 9/32" (0.281") if possible because the stainless steel is a little easier to get.


    Does everyone have the Rob Allen Tuna barrels? That is the one I am using for all my measurements, so if you have a different version, the muzzle might not fit. I'm not saying that I know there to be a difference, just that there might be.

    I think it's a good idea to start with a float. Especially if you are learning and diving in water that is deep for you. Being able to head for the surface after pulling the trigger, without having to let line out of the reel, fix a tangle, etc. is a good thing when you are relatively new at it.


    Having a dive flag following you around is great too, especially with you living in an area that has a few boats.


    To answer your question on the reel, you still need the shooting line wrapped on the gun.

    I'm getting better at it. I have an idea for a simple miniature bending jig that I think would make it pretty easy. If I end up doing a batch of muzzles, I'll probably take the time to give the jig a try.