Muzzle idea, need feeback

    So I am playing with the idea of European style metal muzzle on my next wood gun build. I've looked at all the usual suspects, and trying to come up with ways to do it in a distinctive way.


    This is my idea:


    A section of 316 stainless tubing, that is cut in half into a half cylinder like the first image. The height of the half cylinder will be the same as the width of the gun at the muzzle. The inner diameter of the tubing will need to be the same as the height of the gun. The end of the gun will need to be perfectly rounded so that vertically it will mate with the inside of the half cylinder. The band slot will be cut from the very front of the gun. The section where the track goes to the end of the gun will need to routed out of the cylinder so that the shaft is only on wood. Finally, the metal will be held onto the end of the wood using two or four pins at 45 degree angles.



    Rough sketch:


    Alex

    Should work and look nice. I think I may adopt this way for an enclosed track gun. This way I can eliminated the track guards. I'd cut the metal in such a way that it encloses the shaft rather than leaving an open track. Positioning would have to be exact.



    With this design I always wonder if the bands deteriorate faster when contracting against the metal. Added weight in the front may also be a concern.

    For the weight issue, I always add several ounces of ballast as far forward as I can to help counter muzzle flip. Even on the locust hole gun I did recently, I used a full 2 ounces of tungsten plugs under the line anchor. I don't think the half cylinder weight will be significant.


    As far as bands on rubber, the rubber-metal contact with my sketch is minimal, and is limited to only one band. If the metal is sufficiently deburred, there shouldn't be any problems.


    Any concerns over weakening of the band slot? I think that the opposing 45 degree angles of the pins should act as good reinforcement. The wood will also be of fairly beefy dimensions relative to most wood euros.

    Alex

    I think it woul be beneficial to see the abellan sub muzzles up close and start from there



    The design you posted looks good. Did you say an enclosed track? Cos you would otherwise need a line wrap pin. One other concern is that it might be tough to match the radius so exactly but you really could cheat there with a steel shim of just reduce the wood to fit the metal.


    I like the idea a lot keep us updated please

    i like to spear fish


    Judah (and Harry, pre-emptively),


    I have spent a bunch of time looking at photos of the Abellansub, Teak-sea, and Gikas' muzzle (the latter being the one that's the most direct inspiration). The Abellansub is by far the most distinct and aesthetically aggressive. That said, these designs all accomplish exactly the same thing - bringing the bands to the absolute front of the gun for maximum band stretch. The AS is unique in that the bands are clear of the wood. That said, I don't know how easily you could add a third band to this concept, and the rest of my gun design calls for 3 5/8" bands. Besides which, I'm a builder of modest means, and I'm trying to accomplish something with the same exact function as easily as possible, while also not directly ripping anybody off.


    I am not doing an enclosed track with this project. The line wrap pin can be on the wooden part, or I can just have the wrap pin be another pin running through the metal and into the wood. I'd rather not do any spot welding.


    For getting the tolerances right on the shape of the wood, I could either use a REALLY big roundover cutter, or I could just be really careful with a file and sandpaper. Either way, the whole thing will be epoxied, so that will give me some flexibility.

    Alex

    Interesting concept. Why pins instead of screws? When the gun is fired, the bands will rotate forward and try to keep going. The pins will need to hold the rounded plate from tearing off. Seems like screws would hold better, and allow for removal of the plate if you wanted to remove bands without re-tying them, or wanted to use solid wishbones. Pins are also strongest when they are in shear, and at 45 degrees their retaining strength is reduced significantly. Without some kind of head (like a rivet), the ss end piece could just pull off the pins fairly easily.

    Point taken on the screw versus pin issue, though I was hoping that four pins would be strong enough, plus look cleaner.


    Any other feedback?

    Alex

    Have you considered shaping the metal out of a thin sheet, instead of cutting a piece of pipe? If you cut it into an hourglass shape, with the narrowest part of the hourglass being the width of the muzzle, then the wider (top and bottom) of the hourglass would partially fold down on the sides of the gun above and underneath the band slot. Then your pins or screws would be in the side of the gun , and any force trying to remove the metal would put the screws in shear, which Wood Guy was right in saying is usually a better arrangement.


    Edit - Something along these lines. I think this would also give you more flexibility with the shape of the muzzle, because the metal only needs to span slightly larger than the band slot. Also, the front need not be a circular section, since you are not starting with pipe or tube. Weight would be reduced as well, and you may not even need to notch the top of the metal for shaft clearance.

    Dan- the only drawback to that idea would be that it could be very difficult to load the shaft without the benefit of some open track to help load it.


    Jeff your idea is brilliant. That would also protect the muzzle from getting banged up too.

    i like to spear fish

    It can be. But in this case, I was thinking of a pretty thin piece, such that the metal can mostly be sprung into shape and doesn't really need to be worked into a permanent shape.

    Jeff-
    Yes, I considered doing something very similar to your idea, and I agree it would be better. But I hesitated on it because as Dan implied, it would be somewhat difficult to do the shaping. Plus I'm an amateur compared to most. So the tubing would be relatively easy.


    I think what I'll do at this point is just make one and install it on a disembodied wood muzzle, then see how much weight I can hangon it before it breaks. Don't want to make the rest of gun then have it break.

    Alex

    well cutting the tube seems to be more easily.. but remember tubes are most often out of 1,5 mm or more material thickness. a small peace of o,5 or 1mm should also work and is formed a bit easier as
    tin man mentioned.
    i guess a permanent shape is necessary in both cases..
    anyway you can work with a rubber hammer over shafts in various diameter holded in a vice.. if using the 0,5 plate you can handle the most of the shape with your bare hands..


    creets,,

    sometimes i m asking if the freaks know that they are in the majority..

    Unless you need the forward piece to be removable, why not make it from a section of carbon fiber tube and simply epoxy it in place? That would be simple to attach, strong, lighter than the stainless, and easy to smooth any corners or sharp edges.


    There are a few short pieces on Ebay that aren't crazy expensive.

    Edited once, last by Guest ().

    Cool idea, Jeff. Definitely open to it if I can find some tubing of the right diameter.


    I don't need or want it to be removable, since I tie in all my bands.

    Alex

    Quote from Dan

    Why? Have you tried it? All closed muzzles like RA function this way.



    I've used closed muzzle before and I dont like them for that reason. I find it hard to line the shaft up ( ha ha ha) esp w longer shafts like for a 120. I have limited closed track experience but only friends feathering I like the fivenor so inches of open track.


    It was just a thought. I'm sure like anything it could be learned w practice and repetition but I like an all open setup

    i like to spear fish

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