Posts by makoa

One 18 mm band under tension from muzzle end to load tab on shaft. I'm not a physicist or even technically minded so I can't give you the equivalent coefficient this and that...but I can tell you what I enjoy shooting. I rarely swim with all three bands loaded. I know what I'm hunting so I load for that. With a single band roller I have the smooth release of a less powered up gun (one band loaded) but with the power and penetration of standard 2-3 bands. But the biggest benefit is in the fact that a shorter barreled gun, easier to maneuver, can now take a bigger fish in open water. When hunting caves and reef having a longer gun is a pain in the neck. The roller allows the convenience of the smaller gun without sacrificing to a large extent the power and range of a longer gun. I don't know if it matches or exceeds my current set up of my conventional hybrid, but the goal is to reduce the length of the barrel and still have the range and penetration of the longer gun at the power setting most used. And it does that exactly.

I'm not here to prove one way over another. I'm enjoying the new versatility of the roller concept. It has proven to be a new tool in my tool box that I REALLY enjoy using. I also enjoy my conventional set ups, and my Lance Ohara 8' three prong. I apologize if this threatens spearos that want to believe a conventional set up is as good as it gets. I'm not trying to preach the gospel of roller muzzles either. In the end, go shoot fish. That's what we all like to do. Shoot em with 14 mm bands, 16 mm bands, 1000000000 mm bands. Do it with a euro, a woody, or a hybrid. Slings or three prongs. We spend way too much time talking about shooting fish and not enough time doing it. IN fact I'm going to poke fish right now. So you all battle on about the physics. The only effort I'm going to put out is how am I going to prepare my catch today?

ALOHA!

Makoa

One band for small fish, under ledges, two for most med size, and three for blue water, ulua, and other Pelagics. All my wood guns and hybrid are ballasted and have the mass to handle 7.5 & 8.0 mm shafts and three 16 mm bands. All the guns hit their mark...no, I HIT THE MARK, with these guns. There are as many ways to rig a gun as there are shooters. Each has their opinion. Each has mastered their set up or they change it. I love the pioneers for their ability to land fish with primitive gear. South Pac island cultures, Cuba, and other cultures are still doing it. It's the shooter that makes the gun. I didn't come from the small shafted-gentle-single-banded-small-fish-shooting euro school of hunting. We did that stuff with three prongs and slings. I enjoy shooting powered up teak wood guns and the beefier multi banded euros that have evolved for taking big fish. I have learned to tailor how I shoot with what I'm shooting. So in the end my opinion may not be valid for someone else. I love Uncle Daryl's guns and his experience and respect the guys that are assassins with them. I don't have one of his guns because I think every waterman should build his own at some point in his quest. Any way, I have been curious about the roller concept, so I tried it. And I love what it did. Smooth release with the punching power of my beloved 16 mm bands while keeping the range of a longer barreled gun. Oh yeah, did I mention no tangles in the bands so far. Oh yeah, and only one band to load. It's still too early to have it all figured out but it's all moving in the right direction.

But in the end, roller or no roller, 16 mm vs 14 mm, production Riffe or custom Wong, ITS THE SHOOTER, NOT THE GUN that gets the fish. My10 year old can prove THAT point!

Mad respect for guys like Sonny Tanabe and the true watermen of our way of life!

My hybrid is equivalent to Daryl's "GR Plus. It has a larger diameter CF Barrel of 1.25 and is semi enclosed track, shoots a 7.5 mm shaft and is weighted/ballasted so it handles the thicker bands and heavier shaft. I do like 14mm bands but like the punching power of the 16mm. The great thing about the roller that is proving ideal on my Aimrite is that you can shoot powered up but without the muzzle lift or pop of a powered up standard set up and not sacrifice range or punching power! I can attest to this because of the comparison shooting I've been doing with standard and roller muzzles on targets...the penetration of equivalent equipment is exponentially greater with the roller muzzle AND the shot goes off much smoother. Youtube's got a couple vids showing this same test.

Hunted yesterday with my new 110 Aimrite roller and have to say I AM SOLD! It's nice to shoot a target in the pool while testing and rigging, etc. it's another to land fish with every shot, smooth release, no tangles, no muzzle lift or noticeable recoil, and increased range. Being a part-time Phoenix resident now makes it hard to jump in the ocean so off to Mex we went and I can say I am looking at converting every gun I have into a roller. So my next question is:
Has anyone built or converted a hybrid into a roller? I want to convert my DIY 55" Hybrid Rear Handle Plus. It's been my bread and butter gun for reef and open water with three 5/8" bands. But it really has a "pop" to it when powered up and I want to get that same smooth but powerful shot I now have with my 110 roller without sacrificing range....so roller muzzle and set up makes sense. The only issue I'm thinking about is the width difference between the barrel and the wood stock. How would this affect the way the bands sit along side the carbon barrel.

Any thoughts?

Makoa

The hybrid is the one pictured.

Josh sells quality stuff. He's also got some great gun building vids on YouTube. I've always gotten great service from Josh and he does his best, like Dan, to please his customers. Everyone has a niche or something to offer that no one else has. My Spearfishing folder on my iPad is full of tons of shops from all over cause I haven't found a "one stop shop" yet that carries everything I'm looking for at the price I want to pay...although Spearamerica is pretty close.

Dan, any chance you can start carrying that small diameter ID rubber in Red/black? And thank you for the great service and tech advice you offer. Speardiver wetsuits the best!

Daryl

Yeah I haven't dug too deep. Just talked to Joe about the last dive trip. He says you're a really nice guy hahaha! Anyway they poked some nice ulua so at least Daryl and Joe are getting some watah time!

Nothing beats a good dog and handgun on the night stand, except maybe a good dog and a short barrel shotgun! Big island get occasional pakalolo growers in our jungle and streams. In Arizona we actually had an intruder break in the house walk into the living room where my young daughter was asleep! The dog went full attack posture and my son came running out of his room with his Glock .40. Needless to say the guy ran out the door and never tried to break in again. I love AZ for the open carry and conceal carry laws! As a perp you never know who's going to put a gun in your face so best move to Chicago where you can prey on the gunless!:laughing:

Hank, did u guys meet at Kaimuki Grill or at Daryl's? Update?

Makoa

BTW: IMHO usually the threat of lethal force while staring down the barrel of a gun is a pretty convincing deterrent. I also think that dealing with life after having killed someone would be a challenge, but living with myself after watching a friend or innocent bystander get killed or maimed while I stood idly by and did nothing for fear of statute law would be unbearable. Wolves and sheep...better to be the sheepdog and stop violence rather than watch evil and violence take its toll on the innocent. MHO

I have the Matrix. My boys have the Lince (Matrix only smaller). I also found that one of my boys bought the Nano and has been using that. The Matrix is hard to beat for field of view. The Nano is great too for extreme low volume and also field of view but the lenses are smaller like the Lince. The Matrix is low volume but with slightly larger lenses, so it suits my needs. The angled lenses of Cressi really do give you a great field of vision down. There is no obstruction to your view. I just tried my sons Nano and it is great but a slightly smaller "window" than the Matrix.

Makoa

This is my opinion developed from my over twenty years of Spearfishing...nothing beats the Cressi masks...PERIOD. I love the fit of their masks, the comfort, but most of all (and this where Cressi out does everyone else!) the visibility due to their patented angled lens...can't be beat! I have tried the Nano and love it. If only these Cressi Matrix masks that I've been wearing for about 10 years (?) would wear out or break I would order a pair of Nanos from you Dan. But My Cressi masks (and my Boys'... 4 masks total) just seem to never break, leak, or give us any reason to change. Did I mention the amazing downward visibility?!:laughing:

Makoa

I can't find the exact one but yes it is a pipe roller. This one is ok but not as detailed. Look up Balística Submarina - Spearguns Test, Underwater Ballistics, Trailer.

Quote from Marco

Thanks!

NEVER LOAD THE GUN OUTSIDE THE WATER! :nono::D:laughing:

Now I know better.

Another thing I've read in the past is that the wishbone tend to pull the back of the shaft upside at the end of the bands run. Have you noticed that your shots go low?

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No. There is a YouTube video that has a high speed camera footage that shows the extra slow motion action of a roller vs conventional gun. I've noticed less recoil and a very accurate shot so I would say no to the point you raise.

Sick fish and great thread! Congrats

Quote from Marco

Which wishbone do you load in the shaft? The pink one or the black one?

May I see a picture of the gun loaded? I've just bought the components to build a roler and I'm not really sure if it's going to shoot straight or not. :rolleyes1::laughing:

I've heard that the wishbone tend to lift the back of the shaft in some cases. I see that you're using a regular notched shaft. Will it work the same with a tabbed/pinned shaft?

Thanks,

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The red/pink one gets loaded onto the shaft. The black loop is there to provide a "handle" to initially pull the bands back until you can grab them to load. I prefer shark fin tabs or pins over the notched shafts. This was the only shaft I had that fit the new gun length. I'll be replacing with a finned shaft as soon as I order some.

Aloha
Makoa

Hope the picture helps. It's pretty straight forward.

Band end:

I plugged the area where the reel is anchored and I use a marine grade epoxy that comes in a putty form and can be worked like clay to fill the screw holes providing a seal and to strengthen the screw holds. I've used this method on my sons King Venom, and three other carbon guns with no leaking.

All I did for the line anchor is to run the line through the trigger guard. KISS..."keep it simple stupid", the only way I like to do things. After looking at all the production roller guns (including Aimrite) it appears that this is one of the methods used most along with some using the reel base. It seems that the more complex two or three anchor points are coming from guys doing custom work on heir own guns and who enjoy the added work of design and structural work. There are several YouTube videos showing Aimrite rollers guns (Australia and Kuwait) and a couple of intro videos by Adreno and they all use the trigger guard method. So that's where my starting point is...use what's been done successfully and improve on that if needed. Again, I'm simple minded and am always amazed at the craftsmen in our community that are always redesigning the wheel for all our benefit. As a waterman I've tried to always build my own gear from surfboard to spear shafts, hybrid speargun (with help) and pipe guns, floats, do my own rigging etc and while my work is not equal to the real masters of these things, I love hunting with something I've made and improve my skill at hunting regardless of how well my stuff has turned out. So I try not to get too wrapped up in the "1001 Ways to do something" mentality. What brings me comfort is looking back at the early pioneers like uncle Sonny Tanabe and realize what made these legends great was their ability to hunt regardless of the gear they used. Sorry for the long answer but I know there are guys on here that have better ideas of how to anchor the lines on their pipe guns, but for me this simple method works.

And one more of the trigger guard...

The muzzle end...

Just like Aimrite does on their roller guns, on the trigger guard. The problem with that is there is only one setting. I am going to insert a couple plugs and add two anchors or rest tabs allowing for a 100% and 75% setting. We'll see how that works. But for now I'm happy with the one setting.

Being an airline pilot I love space-age materials for the strength-to-weight ratio benefit. I think you're absolutely right that thicker may not make it stronger, however when applied to a speargun that is rigged with thicker bands and heavier shaft the added weight of the thicker barrel adds mass to the gun and allows for a more stable platform when all the forces of bands firing and shaft accelerating would cause a lighter gun to recoil more and have greater muzzle lift. I'm not a scientifically minded guy so I don't think in terms of physics, but tend to know by feel and experience how this adds up. My blue water wood guns are ballasted to handle higher tensions and heavier shafts than my reef wood guns that tend to degrade in handling when over powered, but not the blue water guns with the added mass and weight. Rick built these Super Venoms for blue water hunting incorporating thicker bands and heavier (7.5mm) shafts so that's why they come in a thickness that adds mass to the gun. That's why I really wanted to use that specific barrel for my roller gun conversion. I'm just a simple minded island boy that approaches my career as an art and not a science, and that is how I approach Spearfishing, as an art cause I'm not brainy enough to make it a science!