new to enclosed tracks

A wood enclosed track in a wood gun is pretty straightforward- you just cut the track with a straight router for the neck and follow with a ball cutter. If you go that route I would recommend installing an 8" or so piece of delrin at the muzzle to protect the muzzle if you drop the gun or shoot too close. I make the muzzle guards with a dovetail but being a carpenter you could make one yourself easily enough.

If you go with a full length track I would highly recommend a delrin over the uhmw track because of it's machinability. UHMW can be machined with sharp tools, true enough, but try to sand, file, or steel wool it and you'll quickly see why I recommend the delrin. The full length delrin track is just a longer version of the muzzle guard. You cut a dovetail in the wood, cut the delrin in a matching dovetail, install it, then cut the track. After the track is cut you put a #4 screw recessed in the track near the trigger mech to hold it (one end only!) and you're done. You can leave it a little proud if you're shooting metal wishbones, or make it flush with the top.

There is one other option you didn't mention. You can make the track out of g10, which is a resin enclosed fiberglas. While it's a little heavier than delrin, the advantage is that it can be epoxied into the wood. This means you can cut a square slot instead of a dovetail, and just glue the square g10 bar in the slot. You can route and machine it like delrin, although carbide tipped bits need to be used unless you just like to resharpen bits.

Hope this helps. There are a lot of other ways, I'm sure, and differrences of opinion on delrin vs UHMW. I've worked quite a bit with the delrin, and I know it works. The g10 is really easy, however, and being able to glue it makes it that much easier.

Whatever you use, I would open the last 3" or so at the muzzle to an open track to make loading the shaft easier.

As you will find out, building a custom speargun becomes a very personal thing, so listen to it all, then build what YOU want to shoot.

Thanks for the detailed answer Bill.

Is poured epoxy no longer in style?

I've made a couple of simple wood enclosed track guns, with Davie cutting the track. On one speargun the track chipped near the front but it's not a big deal. Otherwise the guns work fine.

I think that Ken Jones (Deathstick Spearguns) and others who definately know their stuff swear by poured epoxy tracks. I don't have any personal experience, but from what I can gather, they CAN be tough, quiet, and durable. The only downside, I think, is that there can be a bit of a learning curve. Like any other epoxy work, the quality of the end product depends heavily on a number of variables like temperature, humidity, the ratio of fillers (graphite and microfibers), cure time, etc. There are also some tricks to managing the small bubbles that will inevitably form during mixing, pouring, and offgassing.

I think that it's one of those things that can certainly be a good option if you put the time into the research, or have someone who can show you the ropes. Could be a frustrating process if you have to make all the mistakes on your own.

Quote from 808natural

What are graphite and microfiber fillers? Do you add these to the epoxy? And what is its purpose?

The microfibers add tensile strength to the epoxy, and the graphite powder makes it slippery. Sorry that I don't know how much of each goes into the recipe.

One other thing to consider is the weight of the different options. UHMW is the lightest, and is just about neutral in water. Delrin sinks (specific gravity of about 1.5) and G10 is heavier still with a specific gravity of about 1.8. I think that poured epoxy is probably similar to Delrin in weight, but you can usually use less of it because the epoxy sticks to the wood and doesn't require a mechanical dovetail to hold it in place, though many people use that shape anyway.

If you are building a larger gun, then the small difference in weight may not matter, but it can affect the balance of a long, skinny gun.

Quote from 808natural

Thank you Wood Guy for all of that knowledge!!
I guess uhmw is out of the question. I dont think its worth the trouble if i can do the same thing with delrin, with half the headache. Im thinking about doing an all wood track and will take your advice of adding delrin to the muzzle. But will it be a PITA to put a coat of epoxy on the wood track. Im thinking that putting an even coat of epoxy will be very difficult. Maybe im just putting too much thought into it.:rolleyes1: Would you give a little input on how you finish your tracks?
Thanks again Wood Guy!!!
Oh yea, Tin Man. I hear a lot of talk about poured epoxy tracks, and the only type of epoxy i use is West Systems 2 part epoxy. What are graphite and microfiber fillers? Do you add these to the epoxy? And what is its purpose? Pardon my ignorance.:D

mahalo bruddah Keoni

I don't build a lot of guns, but when I do I use teak, with an oil finish. I like the way teak looks, and water doesn't hurt it. It's also very easy to wipe a fresh coat on it to restore any scratches the gun accumulates. I just put a coat of oil on before inserting the trigger mech, handle, muzzle guard and other stuff the final time, then do another 3 or 4 coats of oil after assembly. Using 320 grit sandpaper will give it a nice luster. To me, if I'm going to spend $200- $300 on parts, and 30- 40 hours or so in labor building the gun, it's worth the extra $20 or $30 for the wood.

That said, more guys probably use woods other than teak or carbon fiber now than teak, and an epoxy coating is probably now more common than oil, so I'm probably a throwback who is hopelessly stuck in the past. ( Damn it, though, those teak guns sure are pretty!)

I try to look for the simple solutions, and a wood track, delrin or g10 muzzle guard, with an oil finish is pretty simple. I hunt mostly small wrecks in Pensacola Bay and we beat our guns up pretty badly, so the oil just makes it really easy to make them look like new again.

Lot's of guys know way more than me about epoxy coatings, though, so maybe some of them will jump in and go into some detail about how they do it.

I had overlooked the poured epoxy track in my earlier post, Dan, so thanks for bringing it up. Tin man summed up my feelings pretty well on that. It just seems easier to me to go the wood or delrin route, but they all will work if done right. With the carpentry background it would seem like the wood and dovetailed delrin muzzle guard would be less of a learning curve for you.

I want to add a detail about finishing/coating that I don't see anyone do but I like a lot. I hate the glossy look of an epoxy coated gun. I like very much the look wood guy described, but I don't want to oil periodically, I would if I had more time probably but now I just want to use the gun. I don't really use epoxy in the conventional way, I thin it down with Xylene to make penetrating epoxy. It's very easy to apply on the gun evenly and without creating bubbles, even with a piece of sponge.

I do a couple of coats. It's just as easy to touch up beat up areas on the stock that are deep enough to go through the finish. You still get a glossy look though. What I do then is lightly sand the stock with 400 grit sandpaper. This creates a nice matte finish that gives me that old feel of an oiled teak stock. Yet the wood is completely sealed. The only disadvantage of the penetrating epoxy is that it changes the outer layer of the wood, makes it somewhat brittle. This is only a problem in areas where the wood is really thin like at the very top of an enclosed track if you made it really thin.

The mix ratio of west marine epoxy is 3 to 1 epoxy to hardener (for the hardener I'm using), this makes up 4 parts in total. I then add 6 parts Xylene to make it an easy to remember 10.

Quote from 808natural

I cant seem to find anywhere in hawaii that sales delrin.

Delrin is the Du Pont trade name for Acetal Homopolymer. There is also a related flavor called Acetal Copolymer, which works just as well and is cheaper. The two differ slightly in strength, and chemical resistance, but either will generally work for our purposes. Copolymer is sometimes more widely available.

Dan, i agree that the matte finish is the nicest, have you seen this new stunning example from ulusub?

oh that is pretty. Does it say on their website how the guns are finished?

www.ulusub-usa.com

Quote

Uluasub come standard in natural wood finish

What does that mean? Not even oil?

whatever it is, I am all for it

...Behslayer is a real friendly guy, I'll give him an invite over here

The UHMW will cut cleanly with very sharp tools, but sometimes you get a little fuzz at the corners. It can be removed with a razor knife and a steady hand.

Alternatively, Wood Guy makes short Delrin muzzle inserts that would fit into a USPS small flat rate box. Not sure what he charges for the inserts, but shipping would only be $5 anywhere in the U.S.

winner!!!!

Quote from Tin Man

The UHMW will cut cleanly with very sharp tools, but sometimes you get a little fuzz at the corners. It can be removed with a razor knife and a steady hand.

Alternatively, Wood Guy makes short Delrin muzzle inserts that would fit into a USPS small flat rate box. Not sure what he charges for the inserts, but shipping would only be $5 anywhere in the U.S.

I charge $12 for the dovetailed delrin muzzle guard plus $5 for shipping anywhere in the US. It has an 8 degree x 11/16" wide dovetail. You install it first, then cut the track right through it when you cut the track. Here's what it looks like.