Ballast question

    So I'm down here in Belize and I finally got my speargun in the water today. My question has to do with ballast. With the shaft in, the gun sinks as expected.


    What I didn't expect, is that it sinks even without the shaft in. I did change out the original handle frame with a different one, but I don't see how that could be the problem, as it is lighter than the original...the frame is identical too. All I did was put an AR 15 grip in place of the teak handle.


    The gun an Andre euro RH 120 if that is any help. I'm new to spearguns and any information on what to expect would be helpful...I was under the impression that the gun should float after firing.


    Thanks in advance.


    Matt

    I prefer a floating gun (without shaft). Some scuba divers prefer a sinking gun.


    The Teak handle grip could add buoyancy. The AR plastic grip adds none, and the AR metal frame could be more robust than the original.


    If it sinks with the shaft out and it wasn't the new handle that caused it, you're out of luck. This gun doesn't appear to have any components you could swap out for ones with more buoyancy.


    The only way I know of to make the stock lighter is to route out recesses, fill with foam, and seal with wood and eopxy.


    That said I'm surprised it doesn't float. Does it have an epoxy track? What kind of wood is it made of?


    Hey thanks for the reply, Dan.


    I'm surprised too. I was out with friends a couple days ago ( I used my pole spear) and both had 120 riffe guns that floated like corks after the shot. Mine goes down handle first and slowly sinks. The gun is teak. No epoxy track...this is an open track gun.


    The teak handle I swapped has the same frame, though the AR frame has a small block to which the handle screws too. I hadn't thought of that until now and that may be the problem...but I doubt it, because there's no metal in the handle like the teak one. So I think they are close to the same. I'm going to have to take it off an see what happens. Besides this, you're right, there's nothing else to do.


    I was thinking of ways to fix this, but the thought of gutting a brand new gun to fix this issue is not sitting right with me. I've got an email into them right now.

    Not sure if the gun was sinking with original handle? If not, then you could put a piece of Foam inside that Grip. If the gun was sinking before you changed the Handle frame out, look for the Lead recesses. You will need to either take lead out, or swap for a thinner shaft.

    Quote from behslayer

    Not sure if the gun was sinking with original handle? If not, then you could put a piece of Foam inside that Grip. If the gun was sinking before you changed the Handle frame out, look for the Lead recesses. You will need to either take lead out, or swap for a thinner shaft.


    Thank you for the reply.


    I'm going to check that today and put the original handle on. I was thinking the same thing with the foam in the handle...even tried a couple wine corks but it didn't make a difference. I sure hope I don't have to start messing around with the lead and all that.


    As for swapping for a thinner shaft, am I missing something? Don't most guns sink with a shaft in the rail?

    I just took the handle off the gun, brought it down to the beach for a float test and it floated perfectly level. Next, I reinstalled the original teak handle. The gun sank just like with the other handle. Having not built a gun before, my best guess it that the ballast testing is done without the handle installed. So I've got a sinker...crap.



    I guess my next move is to take out some lead as suggested. Under the base plate for the handle frame, I see a glued in square plug, which I assume is where the lead is. I have to post one pic at a time, for some reason I can't do more with an iPad.


    Here's the overview of the base plate location and ballast plug.


    I'm guessing that this is where the lead is, because there's no visible plug anywhere else except up near the line anchor. Any Thoughts?



    I've got none of my tools here, so I'll probably just buy a sharp wood chisel and carefully gouge out the plug and then start playing around with getting this gun to float with a handle on it.

    Hi Matt,


    Yes, that is the Rear Lead Recess. There should be one in the Front too? Most Probably.


    Is the gun sinking Handle Heavy? or Uniform? If the gun is only heavy in the Back you could only need to remove some of that. What would I do? You had said you thought about buying a Chisel, that could work. Chiseling lead is generally not fun, but it can work.. You had said there was a Local Woodshop. I would go in there towards the end of the day with a 6 pack of cold beer. If they have a Mortiser, i.e. a Square bladed Drill press, they could drill that Lead Recess out easily. A Drill Press could do as well. They will have all the right stuff, like a saw, maybe a Table Sander, so you can form the Plugs you are removing. Remove the Lead from both Front and Back. (Sounds to me like this piece of Wood is Denser than Average. That's a good thing, probably nice Teak, but maybe they just put in a set amount of lead, or they got confused between two blanks. There's also some guesswork because they are using a Freshwater Ballast tank to test guns.) Remove the Lead in front and back. Bring the gun down to the beach. Take some small lead fishing weights. You can put a few in the Handle since it has a closure. Put some on a fishing line around the area where the front lead recess is. Put the Shaft in the gun. remove and add weight until the gun is weightless and balanced how you want it in the Salt Water. Then you can figure out how to add the lead i.e. melting or just putting in pieces and covering with Epoxy or putting back Wood Covers over. Or even just putting inside your AR-15 Grip.. This stuff happens. Wood.. if it didn't grow on trees we wouldn't use it to build anything.

    Thanks Jon! The gun is handle heavy and it sinks with the front of the gun is up at better than a 45 degree angle. I'll keep this thread updated. I appreciate the advice.

    Well shit. Too bad I missed you. You're in Belize and I'm in Vietnam. Good luck. Where are you going to hunt?
    You'll figure out your gun. No worries.


    Hey, are you a member on the Telecaster forum? I just joined that (bought a Squire Tele here in Vietnam) and there's a guy named Stonecutter on there. Pretty weird if there are two of you. :D

    Hi Hank,


    Yeah bummer on the timing. I just went with some friends on Sunday to a couple spots on the west side of the island. We only went out for a couple hours to catch stuff for shore lunch. Now that I've got to sort out the gun I'm not sure went the next time will be.


    Telecaster forum? No, that's not me, but I am on about a dozen different kinds of forums with this name. I had a stonemasonry business for almost 20 years, thus the name. Maybe that guy is a stonemason too...or a Simpsons fan.

    Quote from Dan

    Why would you not go diving? It's not ideal but wouldn't stop me from using this gun if I had nothing else. You should be using a float line/float/flag.


    Just having available time to get out is all I meant. Not having a gun wouldn't stop me, I've got a nice pole spear to use. I'm going to start working on the gun today and I'm hoping to have it done by Monday.

    Success! So I chiseled the wooden plug and exposed the lead ballast. They used rolled sheet lead, the exact kind I've used to flash 100 year old stone chimney's. I removed all of it and reinstalled the AR15 handle and tested it in the ocean. It floats perfectly. I will hang onto the sheet lead to tweek the gun ballast as needed....I'm sure once I go under with it and install a reel things will need adjusting. But at least is not a sinker anymore. I'll post some pictures later

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