Dry Breath holds, what are the benefits?

Quote from kmo

I do often wonder if developing the ability to dive longer and deeper as the years pass is a result of a physical adaptation which improves my ability to suvive and function at low oxygen levels, or just a psychological adaptation that allows me to be comfortable pushing myself closer to blackout/death.

Based on the freediving science stuff ive seen (people doing science of V02 min etc) there are definitely physiological adaptations and dive reflexes etc that get more pronounced as you train for diving and dive more. For instance, the slowing of your heartbeat.

I do think c02 tolerance does play a large role as well, which is scary because its exactly as you said, your body being able to tolerate being closer to blackout. This is exactly why statics and c02 tables are horrible. Its purely increasing your ability to hold your breath without at all increasing your ability to conserve oxygen.

I have a different perspective mark. To me it is about strength between the ears. I like to know what my body feels like when it is starting to need o2, when it really needs o2 and when I am dangerously low. I hope to never experience this in the water when there is danger. I like to know that I can hold my breath for X number of minutes because I know how I feel while holding. That way, when I am actually diving, I know how to interpret the signals my body is giving me

I have a static breath hold of around 2:45. I have gone as long as 3:15 but that was on a real push. I know that number is meaningless in real world applications however knowing it helps me to determine where I am in a breath hold arc and how my body is doing.

Statics and tables can be very dangerous if you are using them to PUSH your limits. I find them very helpful in learning ones limits and then how to dive well within those limits

Quote from LunkerBuster

I have a different perspective mark. To me it is about strength between the ears. I like to know what my body feels like when it is starting to need o2, when it really needs o2 and when I am dangerously low. I hope to never experience this in the water when there is danger. I like to know that I can hold my breath for X number of minutes because I know how I feel while holding. That way, when I am actually diving, I know how to interpret the signals my body is giving me

I have a static breath hold of around 2:45. I have gone as long as 3:15 but that was on a real push. I know that number is meaningless in real world applications however knowing it helps me to determine where I am in a breath hold arc and how my body is doing.

Statics and tables can be very dangerous if you are using them to PUSH your limits. I find them very helpful in learning ones limits and then how to dive well within those limits

I dont mean doing static's and dry's to measure where you are at. I can totally get that and agree with you. I used to do them a lot for that reason. Using them to feel the signals your body gives etc and to know what your body feels like without worrying about swimming or drowning etc is a great use I agree.

I mean static tables and much more so c02 tables as they are used by the freediving community, and many spearos who think its the way to get bottom time. An attempt to train your body for diving out of the water by holding your breath longer and longer. Like the "apnea" apps sold in the iphone appstore. They all focus on gradual interval training that ends with you really pushing yourself, all without actually diving. What so many people fail to realize is that this process isnt increasing your ability to conserve oyygen, but instead to feel more comfortable doing it. Its almost the same as hyperventilation.

Amen to that. I actually downloaded one of those apps and wrote to the maker that I felt it was dangerous. They responded and added a disclaimer.....I guess it is a start.

Try to perfection your technique.

With 1:30 you can dive (and spearfish!) to 120'.

Just relax, learn to breath with your diaphragm, do a good and clean "duck dive", keep your chin close to your body, don't look to the bottom during the first 3/4 of your dive, concentrate in being streamlined, relaxed, relax every part of your body, including your tongue, your eyes, your arms... and bond with the environment. BE WATER MY FRIEND!

This guys, is what I've teached my pupils over the years and what I've learned from my mentor and changed/improoved my freediving dramatically.

Dive safe and enjoy!

Quote from Reefchief

Based on the freediving science stuff ive seen (people doing science of V02 min etc) there are definitely physiological adaptations and dive reflexes etc that get more pronounced as you train for diving and dive more. For instance, the slowing of your heartbeat.

I do think c02 tolerance does play a large role as well, which is scary because its exactly as you said, your body being able to tolerate being closer to blackout. This is exactly why statics and c02 tables are horrible. Its purely increasing your ability to hold your breath without at all increasing your ability to conserve oxygen.

I'm sure that it would somewhere in the middle (physical vs mental tolerance) but for someone who used to dive once a week (before kids) and now more like once a fortnight I do wonder if the physical improvements continue to apply. As an example, if I'm on a dive holiday and in the water a few days in a row my bottom times increase dramatically towards the end of the trip. I doubt that short term adaptation is any actual improvement in my ability to ward off blackout and I wonder if I'm just getting closer to putting myself in danger.
Being confident, relaxed and streamlined reduces oxygen consumption and I'm sure contributes to short and long term gains in bottom time and depth, and I think much more than the long term physical adaptations. If you are pushing at your limits regularly, like a competitive freediver, then the physical adaptations would play a larger role.
I agree with Marco, 1:30 is a long dive and plenty for what I would consider deep spearfishing.

I have read thru all the replies on this thread and as a beginner, Both sides make sense. So if it was your spouse or child that was brand new to freediving, How would you have them train? I have looked thru many threads on here and there is alot of good information. a lot of this information contradicts itself too.

The simple answer is by diving....With me or another experienced diver who will pay attention and is able to demonstrate proper form and technique as well as rescue if needed. The only way to get better at diving is to dive better more

I guess i can answer this on my own but what would your advise be for someone that doesnt have someone experienced to show them the ropes? I have looked into the classes and will go that route but should I not dive until i can attend a class? I am keeping dives to around 35' just because i am unsure. im not uncomfortable there. just unsure how to progress.

Classes are probably a good way to learn many aspects of diving but they can accelerate your proficiency without the requisite experience and judgment as to use it well and safely. Are there no divers or dive clubs in your area?

I have searched for clubs in the area and have come up empty. also all of the classes i have found are quite a ways away so it makes for some planning problems. I definitely plan on doing the classes but until i can make it happen i am stuck with the resources at hand. I am just anxious because i want to start fishing but i know for it to be safe i need to concentrate on the diving aspect first.

I recommend you dive with a camera or nothing initially. It will make you focus on your diving and your body and will help you figure out how you feel when.

That sounds like a good plan. I do have one last question tho. How long should you have between dives and how many dives per day? I dive without fins or weight for the time being and it leaves me totally exhausted for the next few days.

Okay. First off everything is different without fins. The general rule is don't dive until you feel recovered from the last dive. I also will not dive until I have been on the surface for 2-3 times my last dive. So if I dive one minute I will wait at least 2 minutes and usually 3 before I dive again. This is regardless of weather I physically feel able to dive before that point.
After my designated time has passed I will wait until my body feels recovered and then dive when I have had a good breath up

Quote from redrider

I dive without fins or weight for the time being and it leaves me totally exhausted for the next few days.

Yep. Jake (my son and dive buddy) avoid each other the day after 5-6 hours of free dive hunting. Not sure why but we're both a couple of very tired and grumpy bastards. I've found that drinking a huge glass of carrot juice followed by a protein enriched fruit shake as soon as I arrive home helps. It may be because we don't eat much that morning or at all during the dive time all day. Chemical stimulation of the brain…..:crazy:….

That all makes sense. I'll treat it more like being at the gym. On a side note, what can I expect to be different when I add fins? Will I need to alter the way I do anything or just get use to them?

Also, I would like to apologize for derailing the thread. I'm feeling quite Ill after diving all weekend and was just trying to get some tips.

Quote from redrider

That all makes sense. I'll treat it more like being at the gym. On a side note, what can I expect to be different when I add fins? Will I need to alter the way I do anything or just get use to them?

Fins will enable to you to swim farther, or dive deeper, expending less energy and consuming less oxygen per meter depth or distance.

It should increase your bottom times. It will take some getting used to. You will build calluses in spots (depending on the fin foot pocket and your foot) and muscles in your feet that you haven't used yet.