14 ft Tiger shark caught off Key Biscaine

    Quote

    (SIGH)
    Most of us kill for the sake of the kill . We may not talk about it or even acknowledge it but it is what it is. For anyone of us to say we only hunt for the procurement of food in this day in age is pretty dillusional . Their are a whole lot of way more efficient ways to secure protein than hunting. At least for now anyway.
    So...where does that leave the the 14 foot tiger shark ? Obviously, we can assume it was legally taken....even if by a tool. So why are we judging ? This is where PETA comes in. I don't nec. like all methods employed in consumptive pursuits, but if they're legal; then we'd be best served to defend it in public and debate it in private. PETA loves to use the divide and conquer approach . Why CA. no longer has a lion or bear season , and deer and elk numbers have plummeted . Never mind the increase in human interactions with both .


    All because fellow outdoorsman were either apathetic to defense of hunting them or outright supported the ban.


    Again,slippery slope.


    Why the "Slippery Slope" comment?
    This sounds more like a left wing right wing debate. "I should have the right to hunt/kill an animal no questions asked". "You shouldn't be able to kill an animal period, no matter what the reason is". I guess we fall into the " Middle of the road" America group.:) No one here has argued that we Should/Shouldn't have the right to hunt/kill animals, we just feel that the animal should be used/consumed if killed. That's it. Also, no one said that we only hunt for the procurement of protein. Who doesn't agree that the "Hunt" is part of the reason we spear? It's part of who we are. This is just a part of it though. Once the hunt is over, and the animal lies there dead in front of you, what then? Me, I'm thankful, I take it, and I consume it.
    There will always be Peta's and Vegans alike that believe that what we do is wrong. There will always be more meat eaters though. How's this a slippery slope, or a divide and conquer tactic.


    One last thing, as I'm late to the party, and as I posted you two more intelligent individuals carried on. Who was the guy that shot that huge Tuna last year or the year before(WR I believe) and said that he would no longer do so. He felt so humbled by the beauty of the fish and the experience that he had, that he could not find it in himself to ever hurt, let alone kill, another one.

    Edited once, last by Toledo ().

    Quote from Aaron Proffitt

    Can't help but wonder if this isn't perhaps an evolutionary trait.


    60 year old men aren't supposed to ride horses full out across the plains to shoot arrows at bison or hurl spears at elephants trapped in mud wallows.:)


    Yep, makes me wonder if that's the beginning of the end. Life is about drive, when the drive is gone for whatever reason the point of it all is gone. You can try to reason it out all you want but hunting and killing only makes sense from a personal perspective, because you want to. It can't be justified in any other way but a selfish way. You can say the shark does need to kill to live, but the prey fish if it could would say well then shark don't live.


    Many things affect drive. In nature hunger makes it kick in. Wilder beasts can be in close proximity to a lion when they know it's satiated. In younger animals drive is more of a constant thing. A lot play is used to get rid of the excess. Older animals play less. It also varies from individual to individual. There are guys in whom it runs really strong, they actually don't feel well if they don't take a life from time to time. I'm not very much like that but I understand that evolution made us this way to survive.

    Quote from Toledo970

    Why the "Slippery Slope" comment?
    This sounds more like a left wing right wing debate. "I should have the right to hunt/kill an animal no questions asked". "You shouldn't be able to kill an animal period, no matter what the reason is". I guess we fall into the " Middle of the road" America group.:) No one here has argued that we Should/Shouldn't have the right to hunt/kill animals, we just feel that the animal should be used/consumed if killed. That's it. Also, no one said that we only hunt for the procurement of protein. Who doesn't agree that the "Hunt" is part of the reason we spear? It's part of who we are. This is just a part of it though. Once the hunt is over, and the animal lies there dead in front of you, what then? Me, I'm thankful, I take it, and I consume it.
    There will always be Peta's and Vegans alike that believe that what we do is wrong. There will always be more meat eaters though. How's this a slippery slope, or a divide and conquer tactic.


    One last thing, as I'm late to the party, and as I posted you two more intelligent individuals carried on. Who was the guy that shot that huge Tuna last year or the year before(WR I believe) and said that he would no longer do so. He felt so humbled by the beauty of the fish and the experience that he had, that he could not find it in himself to ever hurt, let alone kill, another one.


    I think we agree more than not... I don't support wanton waste, in fact I believe it is illegal in most places.


    Wonder how that could apply here ?

    Maybe all of his years had made him realize that many of the things he had done were not in line with who he was. The hunt became greater than him.

    Quote from Aaron Proffitt

    I think we agree more than not... I don't support wanton waste, in fact I believe it is illegal in most places.


    Wonder how that could apply here ?


    And you wouldn't agree that what this Shark Guy does is wasteful/wanton of life?

    I think that as you get older and you look ahead at how many years you have left, you begin to value all life a little more.

    Quote from pargo

    There are guys in whom it runs really strong, they actually don't feel well if they don't take a life from time to time. I'm not very much like that but I understand that evolution made us this way to survive.


    This is actually why I took up spearing ... I would go into a sort of depression starting in May( close of turkey seeason) and it'd go until the opening eve of dove season Sept. 1st . And I wouldn't sleep a wink Aug. 31st , the night before. To excited to sleep. All for the sake of knowing I was going to go out the next morning and shoot little gray birds.:crazy: Now I can hunt all summer.:thumbsup2: Still can't sleep on the Eve of openers,though. Deer season,bird season,waterfowl, turkey.... when the fur season opens up I usually begin laying traps at 12:30 AM the day of so I don't even wait for daybreak, if time permits I'll turn the dogs out to run coons same morning. Dec. 1st is a great day.:)


    Hell of it is, by the time Feb. 20th rolls around ( fur closure) I've generally lost 20-30 lbs.,am a sleep deprived mess and my family has had just about enough of me being a ghost member of the house. I'm ready for the season to come to a close, but come Feb 21st I am already going over satellite and topo maps and prepping gear for next season.


    It's an illness.

    i think aaron's last comment revealed something to me.


    the reason this is so difficult to discuss is that there are many factors here


    the desire to hunt can be broken down into many personal sub genres that are all present in each of us, to different degrees
    for example:
    desire to hunt :
    hunger
    provide for family
    bloodlust
    need to exert dominance
    hobby
    patterned behavior
    each of these are not mutually exclusive, nor are they the full limit, it just seems to me that sometimes I might go out diving because i want to smell the ocean (i have been a sea rat all my life and I need to taste and smell salt water to stay sane) I might pass on a lot of less than delicious fish because i want to get a tasty fish (desire to provide good food for family) i might stay out a little longer to get a few tasty fish (hunger) and i might get a little more pleasure from a brief battle with a mack or cuda( bloodlust) cos no matter how elicious they are, hogs dont fight.


    so a single dive for me is about many factors and while I can relate to the desire to kill something to prove my dominnce, my conservation instinct kicks in and tells me that the price of my actions might not equal the value, so I don't shoot the shark.


    i don't have a problem with the notion of trying to get all of your primal needs met, but I dont see the answer in over induldging (sp) and that is what this mark the shark guys is all about to me

    i like to spear fish




    All very good points.
    To add...many times I go out and never chamber a round, never get a sight picture, never say 'sic em' or 'dead' to a dog. And yet, the day was still satisfying . Perhaps tomorrow will be different.


    Maye we're like gambling junkies....addicted to optimism.


    Again, I don't think Mark the Shark is a guy I wanna share deck space with .I don't think we'd hit it off very well, at all . And in a situation like that, a boat becomesa very small area to occupy with someone you detest.




    Here's a question.... is the issue that a 14 foot tiger was taken ? Or that it was Mark the Shart (:)) that did the taking ?

    I have a question for you. Is there a difference between murdering a person or having to kill someone in self defense? How about in a war?

    Quote from Toledo970

    I have a question for you. Is there a difference between murdering a person or having to kill someone in self defense? How about in a war?


    Are you serious ?


    And how does this even come close to the topic at hand ? Where are you going with it ?


    Obviously, there is a difference in lawful homicide and unlawful.... are you trying to suggest my attitude indicates I'm a sociopath ?:confused1: Or just leading up to something ?




    :confused1:

    Just answering your question about Mark the Shark. Sociopath:laughing3: are you serious?? Is every action justified with it being legal? How about if you lived in another country? Would your behavior change depending on this?

    Quote from Toledo970

    Just answering your question about Mark the Shark. Sociopath:laughing3: are you serious?? Do you justify every action with it being legal or illegal? How about if you lived in another country? Would your behavior change depending on this?


    I begin at 'legal' vs. 'illegal' .... I use that as my foundation for sporting conduct. Not being a native, that's all you've got. Pretty much. That being said, I have taken a few critters that I will never hunt again. Not because they are endangered or I'm limited. Just cause to me it seems right. For example, I doubt I will ever shoot another lion. I love'em ,love the people that hunt em,the experience, and the hound work. But, for me, one will serve well into my elder years.


    As far as hunting in other places, specifically internationally.... I could've have had an unlimited bag limit on ducks in Mexico 12 years ago. My daily limit taken was the same as my US limit.
    In Canada, where I have also hunted, game is pretty well managed. If they say I can take two Alberta black bears; I am taking two bears.


    And eating tacos, chili,sausage and roasts for the next six months. God, I love bear. The other red meat.

    Aaron, this is just a friendly discussion. If I thought you were nuts I wouldn't speak to you. You know what you call a person that argues with a crazy person???
    My comment was more along the line that many laws are based on certain religious or moral beliefs. These things change depending on where you are in the world thus making something legal in one place that would be considered an atrocity in another. No matter where in the world I live, my beliefs and morals don't change. If Mark the Shark lived in a place that any and all sharks could be taken without a limit, what do you think he would do. Kill every shark in existence, or sit home watching TV?

    Quote from Toledo970

    Aaron, this is just a friendly discussion. If I thought you were nuts I wouldn't speak to you. You know what you call a person that argues with a crazy person???
    My comment was more along the line that many laws are based on certain religious or moral beliefs. These things change depending on where you are in the world thus making something legal in one place that would be considered an atrocity in another. No matter where in the world I live, my beliefs and morals don't change. If Mark the Shark lived in a place that any and all sharks could be taken without a limit, what do you think he would do. Kill every shark in existence, or sit home watching TV?


    A person who argues with a crazy person is insane....touche'.



    But it seems at least attempts are made when it comes to game and fish regs to at least consider scientific data . To some degree...sometimes woefully so.


    It is friendly debate, I like the guys here and their(our) attitudes on things .* Wife made a comment last night about me taking things to personally when it comes to outdoor pursuits.I didn't appreciate it and she has been waxing my SUV in a bikini sans top since 0600AM this morning.
    It's good to be me.






    *Even the guys who are clueless about dogs and hunting are very open to what it's all about. It's those who have an open invite to my home.Anytime. Why I appreciate Dan for setting this site up. Makes me realize that most Latin Americans and Cubans are just rednecks with a cooler tan and acccent.:thumbsup2:It's a good thing.

    You really don't know how true this is.


    P.S. My dad was a bow hunter. He use to get sea sick easily and took up hunting. Dan had asked me if he had started this since Cuba. I thought so, but I really wasn't 100% sure. He has past on now, so it's not possible to ask him. When I get down to Florida next month hopefully, I'm going to go visit some extended family and try to get more info on many things.

    Edited once, last by Toledo ().

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member to leave a comment.

Register a new account
Sign in now