Posts by JimCuda

Great video Greekdiver, you seem to be very accurate with that gun, at some point I'd like to see a fish BEFORE you pull the trigger! I just have two comments:

--For the purposes of making the video you should get a close up so we can identify the fish first, then back up and shoot it. :atongue:

OR

--Have you ever tried to load the videos on the internet in HD? Google search turned this up: Vimeo HD.

I hope you understand that I'm just joking around, except for the great video and HD quality part!

Jim

I was almost upset that I missed it because I had to study for an exam. My buddy is allergic to shellfish and he has similar reactions to them as what happened to you guys.

Positives:
Easy to catch
Plentiful
Bite size

Negatives:
Look weird
Throat closes up

At night you can definitely stab a whole lot of fish. I've seen Hogfish asleep by seafans, with the hogfish camouflaged to the color of the fan. If they weren't so slippery, I'd have caught them before.

Quote from seahunter49

Jim, are you really a noob? Your two shnappers from Sat are just as good as Marcos! Reminds me of a quote I like from the original iron lady, Golda Meir "Don't be humble... you're not that great" :laughing3:

That's a good quote! I'm not a noob, but I always err on the side of caution when in the company of much more experienced people.

My first dive is always terrible, by the 3rd or 4th, I'm good. I think that better visibility does make the diving easier because it usually lets you be more relaxed about the "unknown". However, I think the bad vis helps me keep my head in it's normal position when I dive down, not trying to look at the bottom the whole time. This trick has definitely given me a lot more bottom time.

Wowzers! What area on the island are you spearing from? I've been freediving when I was a super beginner (now I'm just a noob), in Aguadilla. Beautiful structure, great vis, didn't get much more than some small snappers though.

Quote from seahunter49

The vis was so bad at one point I saw what I thought was a big fish and it turned out to be Jim's fin.

I felt the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and looked behind me only to see Dan. He was stalking me like some of the men that live in his neighborhood (Rolo can clarify).

The vis was bad in some spots, I thought I saw a giant black grouper surface below me - It was just Davie.

I had a lot of fun meeting and diving with everyone. I was lucky not to swim in Rolo's "brown eel" because I was swimming back to the boat at the same time as Davie.

Basspro shops has a lot of these things. Tournament markers they're called.

Davie, that makes too much sense. I blame violence on TV, especially cartoons!

On a side note, is this funny? I don't know what they are saying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGI52iiIcxg&feature=related

See where the rail ends and the tendons begin? I thought it would be easy just to do it that way, less stress concentration than drilling a hole.

Jim

Sn, what if you just trim the rails down to the end of the tendons. Then you'll have a good surface for adhesion. Riffe fins are set up this way.

THE ANKLE DOES NOT GO THAT WAY!!!!! AAAAAHHHH

Quote from Marco

I would like to get into this discussion....

I have to recognize that I pretty much don't do the buddy up thing, BUT, when I know that I'm going to dive deeper than normal or if I know i will stay at the bottom more than usual, then I expressely ask someone (of a similar level) to wach my ass, and this happens only when the visibility allows him to wach me all the time.

There are too many distractions in the sea to rely you life totally in a buddy. I/e: a wahoo shows up at shooting range when you are in the bottom. What do you think your "buddy" is going to do? I'm not sure... :rolleyes1: But for sure is going to distract "a little bit".

At my age, I don't rely totally in anyone unless at specific cases and situations. I think we should dive responsibly at the depts/times we are comfortable with. That's why imo a dive computer is a must for a serious freediver.

This being said, I'm happy that Jim is ok and for sure he's got a good lesson from this situation. ;):thumbsup2:

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Thanks man, I agree with everything you said. The important thing is to have the prescense of mind to ask for a buddy in those circumstances.

In my mind, the buddy is there for you on the surface if you blackout. As far as the Wahoo, that's up to you and the circumstances, not up to your buddy (as you said).

Quote from seahunter49

The seat belt analogy reminds me of the false sense of security possessed by drivers who wear the seat belt religiously but are really shitty drivers in all other respects, a danger to selves and most unfortunately others. I don't wear a seatbelt most of the time but I'm very aware of what's going on on the road and take evasive action. I think you've seen that for yourself ;)I was not saying that you shouldn't have dropped the belt. I was just explaining how certain things you do underwater will tax your bottom time. Focusing on an activity that requires fine motor skills is one of those things. Even acting on the thought of looking up to see how far the surface is while on a tight ascent can push you over the edge. I was pointing out that what you did, undoing the belt and fastening it to the gun, could have possibly consumed more breath hold energy than a controlled ascent with the belt would have. If you get to the point where you decide to drop your belt there is no other thing that should be on your mind than pull the tab and kick up in a controlled manner.

100% agreement, that's the point I was trying to make earlier. Seeing the big picture definitely involves taking into account what's using your air, even anxiety, stress, and thinking.

Also, I drive pretty defensively -with a seatbelt.

Quote from seahunter49

You're missing my point. There are different kinds of diving. People who tend to do "numbers" or specific wrecks all the time get accustomed to this kind of diving. When you're covering large areas of reef like what Pantoja and I tend to do, which is a habit from Cuba and shore diving and we're productive at it, you're bound to get separated. Even if you're only 60' apart it becomes the "same ocean same day" principle.

Extending your bottom time to the point of danger can happen at any depth. You can have a situation in 50' that will put you in the same position, but you didn't have a buddy watching you because you didn't think it was so deep. It's best to always concentrate on what your body is telling you rather than counting on another person as the last line of defense. You get used to it and you're screwed IMO because one day you will be alone and you will push yourself.

True. The buddy system isn't designed to work that way. There are gonna be times when you will be separated. When that happens, then you play even deeper within your limits.

Counting on another person is definitely a mistake, but in this case that's not what I did. I did not feel the need to breathe and pushed through, I didn't feel starved for air until well into the ascent. I went far deeper than I was supposed to and experienced. That was the mistake - that's what the buddy is for, for those times when it's too late.

I have a feeling we are in complete agreement, but we're just talking about the fine details.

Quote from seahunter49

Good observations.Impossible rule to maintain unless diving two guys with one gun. Focus on your limits instead. Learn when it's time to ask for a spot and don't dive unless you get one. Don't grow dependent and complacent with the idea that someone is always watching you.

Not dependent on it, but mistakes/accidents happen. It's certainly not impossible to maintain, we did it on this dive. We knew that it was important to have a buddy in this case. I wear my seatbelt in the car for the same reason.

Quote from seahunter49

Sounds to me like you're not aware how much O2 is expended with the energy required to focus on a task requiring fine motor functions like what you described. Not to say that you should have left the belt on but I think you may have been able to make it back safely without dropping it considering what you were able to do.I think #2 is the best one, but I don't think you're following it even now. I want you to be safe Jim and that's my only motivation in saying this.

I wasn't aware of how the depth would affect me as this was my first time, but I was erring on the side of safety by dumping the belt. Under different conditions, I could have kept the belt and completed the dive without any repercussions. I was in doubt, so I tried to lose it.

I'm unsure as to how you can reach the conclusion that I currently don't follow it, but I agree about #2 being the best rule. Unfortunately it's also the least tangible. I ask for a dive buddy, I can buy a floatline, but I can't go pick up situational awareness.

This event has certainly opened my eyes to my limitations and what it takes to freedive safely.

Why do all my designs look like this:

http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=2050675

Jim

This discussion has gone past being helpful. Kris did nothing wrong in this case. If I went out with some other capable freedivers, then I would have been comfortable going past 72 ft (my max at the time). I wanted to see 85 ft, but that's it.

I would like us to focus on what we can learn from this and maybe clarify what I did wrong. This is in no order, except the first.

1) Dive with a Buddy, one up one down at depth

Fortunately, this was a rule that I subscribe to. It was also a rule of the boat owner.

2) Don't focus on a goal, see the big picture

I got focused on the fish that were deep, a freediver should always see the big picture while diving. The fish is a small part of it. I got fooled because the visibility opened up at around 50 feet deep. I think it made me feel like I was "starting over", that the fish were "right there". The visibility fooled me on actually how far the fish was. I should have seen what was really going on.

3) Breathe up properly beforehand

After my buddy surfaced, I finned up to him (about 15 feet) to get in position. I paused, took 3 deep breaths and dove down (not hyperventilating). I should have kicked up to him and made sure I was completely relaxed.

4) Floatlines with depth

I like certain aspects of a reel, mainly the ease of dealing with a 100+ feet of line. However, in my mind, I will be diving with a floatline/float when going deeper. If I were to shoot a big fish, it would be all too easy to strip the reel of 150 feet of line. The question of losing your gun disappears.

5) Be aware of the totality of the situation before you begin

I didn't fully take into account danger of a 120 foot bottom and how I would react to it. I thought to myself, I'll just stop high in the water column. I didn't think, "what happens if I see a big fish?", "how will being tired affect me?", "am I fully hydrated?", "am I relaxed?". I wasn't considering these possibilities because I didn't analyze the full situation beforehand.

6) Dump the Weightbelt

After I shot at the grouper and missed, the gun was freespooling and letting out reel line as it was going up. I wanted to lose the belt (to be safe), but be able to pick it up. I took it off and tied it around the reel line to hopefully snag the flopper and I could just retrieve it on the surface. At the time, I thought I was gonna be fine, I didn't fully see how close to SWB I was. I should have just dumped it and brought the gun up with me.

7) Stay relaxed

When I turned for the surface, I kicked harder than I normally do to get up top. I should have just relaxed and taken longer to get up top while consuming less air. Stress and anxiety all can lead to increased air consumption.

Dive conservatively

Up to this point I was doing just that. I mistakenly shot past my max by 25 feet, which is ridiculous. I didn't realize how fast I was gliding to the bottom and how the factors I talked about earlier came together.

9) Learn from others

If you want to add something constructive, please do. I won't be offended. I will take some offense to attacks directed towards the guy who just saved my ass, though.

Quote from Rolo

Don't ever be ashamed to discuss any issues in regard to diving accidents or potential mishaps. The worst you can do is let pride get in the way of not sharing your story or downplaying it or worse covering it up. Learn from it and know your limitations. Be a "conservative" diver. Bottom times and depths are just digits. Come up with air and always be humble. Glad you are safe and it looks like you have already learned from your ordeal.

Good luck on your gun search.

I'm not actually ashamed of the mishap, just that I was so reckless. Since getting more "serious" into freediving, I've been careful about how to approach increasing depth. Basically, I let myself down and I'm disappointed by that. I was trying to be conservative, I wasn't planning to go to that depth, just got focused on the fish.

The biggest thing I learned is that I need to evaluate the whole circumstance and learn to look at the big picture, even when in the middle of the dive.

Quote from Toledo970

If you were just doing some bluewater/midwater spearing I think you should have had a float. I think this was mistake #1. If the Ultrafreeze is still in the same place it use to be(no hurricanes have moved it), the top of that ship is at about 75' of water which is(admitted by you) past your max. That ship lies in about 120' with about a 40 or 45 foot relief. My opinion, if you're going to try some deeper water, don't do it when spearing. Too many things can go wrong.
Dan, I agree whole heartedly. Sometimes other people don't have to pressure you into doing somehting, just their presence is enough for you to make bad decisions. I've learned this even more after having kids.

I hadn't read what you posted about the float, but good idea. Also,you said " I didn't realize how far down he was on the wreck". Where you diving the wreck or midwater?

You're absolutely right, the Ultra Freeze lies like very much like that. But the first mistake isn't the float, it was my comfortable attitude about diving deeper.

I made the decision to dive because I was confident that I could easily surpass my max. I was this point spending almost a 30-45 secs of bottom time at my max depth (total dive time being an honest 1:45 at 70 ft). I was limited by where people that I've been diving with would go. I got ahead of myself on that one dive and I'm owning up to that. I see the mistakes I did and am correcting them.