Does swimming up equal swimming horizontally?

    If you're weighed correctly does swimming back to the surface from depth require the same effort as swimming underwater horizontally?


    I'm thinking if there is a difference then it's very small. As such once you get to the glide, which is fairly quickly, you're getting a free ride in terms of air consumption. Why is it then that depth is so important to some freedivers? Isn't underwater distance swimming more challenging and at the same time free of the danger element? It's not like the depth motivated freedivers are going down there to see something, all they see is the rope.

    i think people who freedive mainly for depth still gilde most of the way down. usually they waste more air to reach maximum depth rather than wanting to get to the bottom and look around for a bit. so they might have 8 kick cycles instead of 5 before hiting the glide. the guy who does 8 instead of 5 will have less time to hunt. it will just be a touch and go.

    That`s an interesting question, cause in the way up you are receiving an upward thrust due to the Archymedes principle. But maybe that does apply to swimming vertically too, when you are dealing against that push.

    I'm a Speardiver, not a freediver

    To conquer the elements. In this case pressure. DYN, distance swimming WR with fins is 250 meters (Molchanov), the CWT(with fins) WR. is 122 meters( X 2 is 244 meters) by Martin Stepanek. Pretty similar results.I think that the extra energy exerted on the way up almost cancels out with the lack of energy exerted for most of the trip down.


    http://www.aida-international.org/aspportal1/code/page.asp?sType=wr&CountryID=4&actID=3&ObjectID=136

    Edited once, last by Toledo ().

    great topic :thumbsup2:


    Mullins says he thinks the ratio is 1.1:1 (horiz vs vertical), so in theory, if you can do a 100m dynamic, so you should be able to do a 45m dive HOWEVER there are lots of factor to consider


    compensation:#1 limiting factor, such as being able to only dive to 32m because it is very difficult for me to compensate after that depth and my compensation technique is not very efficient.


    finning effort: in a dyn swim, you have to keep a constant workload/speed to gain max benefits, but the force required to move this way is not close to what is needed to break the surface or come back from a deep negative position. there is the sink benefit and the the "float up" benefit at begin and end of dives.


    If I could dive the same way in the same ratio as I swim, there is no doubt in mind I could reach 50m. Not that it is really a goal of mine. I train not for depth, but for bottom time.


    the pros are doing 200m swims and 100m dives, sounds like the ratio works for them.

    China V.I.P

    I think diving, pressure and cold, activate the mammalian diving reflex which somehow makes the body conserve more oxygen. It could be a body mechanism that is not possible to control consciously, that only kicks under certain conditions. It's hard to achieve this state without depth in a relatively warm swimming pool.

    Quote from pargo

    I think diving, pressure and cold, activate the mammalian diving reflex which somehow makes the body conserve more oxygen. It could be a body mechanism that is not possible to control consciously, that only kicks under certain conditions. It's hard to achieve this state without depth in a relatively warm swimming pool.


    you'd think so, not the case.


    like toledo says above it can be achieved in a pool just as quickly, other wise how could we explain what a lot of the modern young top freedivers are doing. For example, sometimes at pool I take a few minutes before I start, and make my first swim a 100m swim, I can def feel the reflex kick during the swim, legs get heavy towards the end and you get that sensation that they might fail you even though I think I could go a little longer, break the surface, 2 or 3 recovery breaths and good to go. that is where the mental barrier kicks in...


    many of the pros today, when in competition, they are doing a max attempt on their first dive! no warm ups, all they do is breathup and go to the max.


    they believe that (and this is all from reading lots of info on deeperblue and other places) if the dive reflex kicks in during the dive, which is sure to happen if you do a long first dive, it is the best case scenario for survival. it will be more uncomfortable, but you'll black out later. when the so called reflex kicks in, it just makes the effort more confortable, but overall performance should not change.

    China V.I.P

    Edited 3 times, last by oto ().

    good post oto. one thing i have tried and mullins also had commented about is putting your body in survival mode. on my first dive usually try to hold it a bit until i feel some contractions. this pretty much hits the switch. the shock really works. a little painful but it sets the tone for the rest of theday. i usually try to focus on relaxing and my heart rate and surface interval ventilations after that.

    This is a great thread. I believe the idea is to put your body under as much stress as quickly as possible. This is why many Static and DYN athletes do empty lung breathholds as part of warm up.

    I'm somewhat becoming a believer in making the first dive off a boat deep. I noticed that in the pool my first dive is pretty long and very relaxing. Maybe because at that point the body is still well oxygenated/there's no oxygen debt.

    yea i believe they call them "negative pressure dives" they are performed with empty lungs, they do stimulate the " ohh shitt:0 mode" which is your body's mammalian dive reflex fighting to keep you alive.


    they should however be done with a spotter.
    there is alot more info on this on the internet and other freediving sites. i guess everyone uses what works for them.


    btw it has happened to me more than once that i see a big fish on my first dive, in which i have no air or reflex

    Quote from av001

    good post oto. one thing i have tried and mullins also had commented about is putting your body in survival mode. on my first dive usually try to hold it a bit until i feel some contractions. this pretty much hits the switch. the shock really works. a little painful but it sets the tone for the rest of theday. i usually try to focus on relaxing and my heart rate and surface interval ventilations after that.


    thanks Alan, I also read Mullins stuff a lot. he def says to make that first dive long and hard, give your body something to think about!


    I'm fascinated by this stuff, I wish I had more time to devote to the sport!

    China V.I.P

    Quote from av001

    yea i believe they call them "negative pressure dives" they are performed with empty lungs, they do stimulate the " ohh shitt:0 mode" which is your body's mammalian dive reflex fighting to keep you alive.


    they should however be done with a spotter.
    there is alot more info on this on the internet and other freediving sites. i guess everyone uses what works for them.


    btw it has happened to me more than once that i see a big fish on my first dive, in which i have no air or reflex


    then what you do is take the proper time to relax and breathe up so you can make your first dive a long one. all it takes is 5 minutes.

    China V.I.P

    On the Mullins topic, have you guys seen some of his spearfishing vids? The guys deep spearfishing dives are 175-200 feet. BTW he also has some WR's in spearing.

    LOL, I was just trying to remember. I remember seeing an interview they did on him where he talks about his love of spearing. Also, I think there's a vid on youtube of his marlin WR. I'll try to find the interview. I think it was on DB.

    Quote from Toledo970

    On the Mullins topic, have you guys seen some of his spearfishing vids? The guys deep spearfishing dives are 175-200 feet. BTW he also has some WR's in spearing.


    those are mostly variable weight dives, still impressive though! I know he has made 100m, and he is good for 200+ in the pool with and without fins!

    China V.I.P

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