Mares Bazooka 140 cm

    Quote from Marco

    I'm not a theoretical guru, but I've shot many band guns and pneumatic guns over my life. Now I have a chronic wirst injury and I can only use rollerguns or pneumatics to avoid pain.


    I have never shot a big tuna gun, but I have shot a 110 Abellan and I can positively say that a Cyrano EVO HF has (lots) less recoil than the Abellan.


    And if you compare with railguns, it's night and day.


    The subjective element probably has the same, if not more, weight in gold than the theory/data. Because at the end of the day the mind game we play with ourselves is what really puts fish in the cooler. It's fun to talk about theory and how things work, but that doesn't really cross my mind out in the water.

    Quote from popgun pete

    That is because many railguns are too light, especially with carbon tube barrels, whereas a certain amount of metalwork is unavoidable in a pneumatic gun. Tuna guns that are properly ballasted don't have much recoil, but are very heavy guns out of the water and are bulky in the bodywork in order to float. Steve Alexander and Bill Kitto are the guys who have written quite a bit on gun ballasting, so something to read up on. No theories there, just the facts.


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    Thanks for the Alexander link. I have not read that one.

    Hey Marco,
    I have just begun trying to "poll" a bit over here about the pressures spearos tend to run their guns at.
    I can't recall if you are a member on deeperblue but if not, I would love if you could give me the skinny here:
    What pressure do you run your gun at? And do you pressurize it to the max you can load or?


    BTW, didn't you get a Predathor 115/130 or was that for a friend?

    Line release is a weak point. New version is stainless. It breaks often and doesn't reset very well. I already replaced mine once. But was my fault.


    I do pump it to the maximum pressure I can load it comfortably. The problem if you pump it too much is that things start to break. Mine is at 24-25 atm. It's plenty power for big fish at short distances,which is why I bought it for.


    I saw your discussion with Pete and I also was wondering about his calculations for the 62% power increase.:rolleyes1:


    I did bought a Predathor but I like the Cyrano much better. Trigger sensitivity is better than any other pneumatic I have tried. I'm taking both to a trip next week. That will be the field test for the Predathor.

    Marco Melis

    A bad day fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work.

    Edited 2 times, last by Marco ().

    Hey Marco,
    Thanks so much for the info - I will add it over there, if you don't mind.


    I think the discussion Pete and I had started when I assumed most of us always pre-charge our guns close to the max we can load and I thought he did, too. As such, I got really confused with the 62%, too and then things went overboard;-)
    But the whole thread got me thinking about that exact point and I find it really interesting what people can load.


    BTW, I wanted to PM you - but I might as well tell you here. I might be having a few 1.4-1.5mm trigger sets made for Predathors. If I succeed in having them made and they hold air, I'll find a way to get you a set:-). It should reduce the trigger pull by 350g-400g at 25 bar but you still have spring tension and a bit of friction to contend with.


    I placed the Predathor trigger on top of a Mares Mirage trigger and the geometry is the same, so the leverage should be, too. But I don't know if they changed the geometry of the Evo - they might have in the 30-40 years since the Mirage, haha. Maybe the Predathor springs are really strong. I will check on that in a few days and try to make some comparisons to other springs I have here.

    Yes, it is indeed a lame name, well the spelling part:-).
    Their carbon fiber pimped Predathor is called Dark Side, haha;-)
    (But at least that cudos to airgun afficionados as they are often referred to as having gone to the dark side).


    I think there are always people talking shit about most of the big brands, oftentimes warranted, of course. Pathos is on a roll, but I have seen people complain about e.g. their reels and you hated their foot pockets, right? (1000s of freedivers don't, btw). But in general, it seems as many happy/unhappy Salvi users as with most other big brands, no? I get that their first generation of guns supposedly had some issues (muzzle design for example) but is the whole catalog seriously shit or are you just being harsh? Is everything breaking? I'm genuinely curious:-).


    So far my own few products from them have been totally fine: I have two suits from them, no issues with them whereas the one I have from Omer is a total frikkin dud coming apart in all seams from the very first dive, their Atoll float, too and I have seen two of their Mini Laser (?) knives snap at the root of the blade. Still, a lot of love for that brand out there so obviously mileage varies and I did like my Omer Stingrays before I changed to Pathos pockets.
    I love Salvi's ST knife and I don't expect issues with the Predathor based on quite a number of them being used by spearos back home and none have complained (just don't use the original line slider! But at least they changed it now - just like they changed their 1st generation open muzzle quite fast).
    BTW, they just incorporated a roller in the trigger mech of their newest bandguns. If it is well-executed that could possibly be a step up from all(?) pipe gun manufacturers in terms of triggers.
    I have a Pathos handle and an Omer Cayman handle next to me right now, and I can flex the Cayman handle with my bare hands, a lot less so with the Pathos but there's gotta be 1000s of Caymans out there. I don't have a Salvi bandgun handle but the plastic on the Predathor and the handle itself has to be some of the toughest I have even seen (I hope it is not brittle).

    Quote from Dan

    Is Predathor predator with an h added? Lame.. like everything Salvimar.


    Won't a stronger/metal line release for the Evo make something else give way/break instead?


    Probably the arm on the front of the plastic trigger will break if the line release lever is metal and cannot bend out of the way. A possible fix is the remove the "Cyrano Evo" piston and replace it with the piston from the "Cyrano" which has a smaller diameter mushroom tail. The smaller diameter tail should allow the sear lever to level out, as in the "Evo" it is tilted and already half way there to letting the piston tail go. That makes for a very sensitive trigger, but at the cost of breaking the line release lever. Swapping the piston may require changing the shock absorber anvil as well because the impacting surfaces need to match, however it should be easy to check the fit when changing over the parts.

    I will appreciate if you send me the trigger pin Gecko. :) PM when you have them.


    Regarding the new EVO's, also the trigger is going to be stainless. Let's see...


    My Predathor has the "Race" kit. So it's all pimped. Only difference with the "Dark side" is the aluminum barrell.


    What's wrong with the EVO piston, Pete? Mine hasn't failed.

    Marco Melis

    A bad day fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work.


    The mushroom tail is too big diameter-wise, that is why the sear lever is tilted in the diagrams, which are Mares own diagrams. That is why I put the two diagrams up in the previous post to show the difference. A single-piece trigger only holds with a vertical tooth face at ninety degrees to the barrel longitudinal axis, but Mares in their wisdom have tried to tilt it over and go for a sensitive trigger while at the same time using a coupled line release which demands absolute synchronization. Unfortunately the tipping point for shooting is too unreliable with a single-piece trigger tilted over like that. The old hands at Mares would have known that, but those guys have all retired and the new hands at the wheel think they can manage it, but the only way to be sure is to back the sensitivity screw right off which defeats the purpose of tilting the sear lever. Better to level the sear lever off and use the system as it was designed and worked with no problems for fifty years, the "Sten" first appearing in 1966/67. However that in a sense flattened out single-piece metal trigger dates from further back than that to "Nemrod" using it in their series IV spearguns. The only other fix would be to lengthen the forward projecting control arm, or finger, on the plastic "secondary" (or remote) trigger and move the pivot for the line release lever further forwards in the gun as you want the control arm to unblock the line release arm before the sear lever lets go of the piston tail.

    Is it really worth it to buy a "new and improved" model from Mares with all these problems? Why not just use a proven design such as the old Mares Cyrano or Seac Asso? I know the basic function of a pneumatic is the same so there can't be a significant power increase with the new designs.

    Quote from Dan

    Is it really worth it to buy a "new and improved" model from Mares with all these problems? Why not just use a proven design such as the old Mares Cyrano or Seac Asso? I know the basic function of a pneumatic is the same so there can't be a significant power increase with the new designs.


    It is all about sales and offering something "new", even if there is not much improvement, or in this case, an accidental deterioration, unless the new guns are very carefully adjusted. That ain't going to happen on the production line with the "Rapido" sign lit up. Mares very first "Sten" is just as good a gun today as the latest models, although it could have done with larger muzzle relief ports. Buyers as you know always want something new, so the marketing departments get new guns made even if the improvements are marginal or even imaginary. Bragging rights are up for grabs, hence new designs are often praised as being the next big thing before the first guns are ready for sale, as was the case for the Sporasub "One Air" which was depicted in "for sale" adverts as the prototype, especially with regards to the shape of the plastic molded nose cone.

    I've handled the Sporasub One Air. It looks interesting in pictures but in person it fails to impress. One of the advantages of pneumatic spearguns is they're compact. The One Air is far from compact, it feels like a log, and I don't know what benefit this increase in barrel size brings.


    The contoured shapes and raised handle of the new Mares Cyrano are eye pleasing, those elements are something I'm attracted to even though I know pneumatic spearguns are fairly simple. But not at the expense of functionality. It always amazes me how companies with such huge resources get it wrong. Cheaping out on a weak slider.. :smackforehead: If I were to improve the pneumatic speargun I'd focus on an ergonomic handle, trouble free line release, and better balance/more flotation towards the front.

    Quote from Dan

    I've handled the Sporasub One Air. It looks interesting in pictures but in person it fails to impress. One of the advantages of pneumatic spearguns is they're compact. The One Air is far from compact, it feels like a log, and I don't know what benefit this increase in barrel size brings.


    The contoured shapes and raised handle of the new Mares Cyrano are eye pleasing, those elements are something I'm attracted to even though I know pneumatic spearguns are fairly simple. But not at the expense of functionality. It always amazes me how companies with such huge resources get it wrong. Cheaping out on a weak slider.. :smackforehead: If I were to improve the pneumatic speargun I'd focus on an ergonomic handle, trouble free line release, and better balance/more flotation towards the front.


    The bean counters must win out in keeping everything to an "acceptable" minimum so that service life is within expectations and the cost is competitive. The difference today is that expectations have been lowered and there has been an agreement as to what the price should be, not surprising as many guns are clones of a few different models. Today there is talk of teething problems and guns being sorted out with a need to be patient as the fixes come through. In the early days guns with even a hint of trouble were dropped like a hot rock and never considered again, so new guns were only let out after all bugs had gone. Now the need is for a procession of new models every few years and the development time is just not there, so "beta test" guns get sold to the public.


    With its extra mass and those side tanks the "One Air" should have been a 13 mm or 14 mm ID inner barrel gun, not a weaker gun like the 11 mm guns are as they only shoot skinny spears, so don't need the extra grunt. Probably the best of those is the Omer XII as the gun is reduced to the essentials. If there is to be an air powered arbalete then it will be the "Dreamair", that is provided it works and keeps working, but that remains to be seen.

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