Possible muzzle configurations

    Hey Guys,


    I have a couple of these CF rail barrels, they are pretty solid with a 2mm wall and built in CF track. They look the part too with the twill red coating.


    This is a 140cm barrel with an I.D of 26.2mm and an O.D of 31mm, its pure CF so im confident it will take a bit of abuse.


    I was looking for a reverse mech handle that would take 3x14mm rubber and looked the part. I looked at the D'Angelo 2 handle as their are heaps of variants of it out there, the Merou handle i figured it must be good if Aimrite referenced it... was going to use an R.A but its to expensive in AUS and doesn’t have the reverse mech. Not a fan of cressi or mares, was considering a Mako handle, he copy of the OLD OLD school cavalero handle...... but i have decided that i will run a Picasso BW cobra handle.... I have a mate that sells mechs to allow the safe use of up to 3x16mm bands. I like to look, the shape, the fact its built for a 32mm O.D barrel and that it has a right specific grip upon request. At 43 Euro I felt it was the best option for me.


    I’m stuck however on the muzzle and I’m looking for some advice.... I have looked into a heap of open muzzles.... from gun builders to the big brands. I have thought about single band slots, multiple holes, ferrules, pinned pivoting bridles and more.


    I like ferrules because i like the look and the way the bands line up, i hate the loss of band stretch and its not a fair trade off, even if i counter it with a reverse mech.


    I like the single band slot more than multiple holes and I’m not a fan of a slot for wish bones, i prefer to tie them in and that’s that... I use replaceable wishbones so its no big deal, the bands come out after a swim and go in the fridge for storage anyway....


    My question is... can i pour epoxy mixed with Carbon fiber into the barrel and then drill the single band slot straight into the barrel? Giving it the same affect as the Aimrite muzzle on their monoblock guns?


    The things I’m concerned about are cracking the barrel while drilling the muzzle and it not holding up to the pressure once the bands are in.


    I would cut the front of the barrel at an angle much like the pic of the aimrite, and pin it then cut a simple line guide down the front. I would like pointers as to your thinking about reel line guide and the possible addition of a shark spike.......


    Also do you think it would be best to pour epoxy mix as mentioned OR to glue in a length of HDPE to the inside of the barrel and shape it that way?


    Final option would be to make a custom muzzle similar to the one in the pic below, it would however be equal to the O.D of my barrel and have either a stick on track or machined to the same specs of the barrel….


    I played with the Pelaj open muzzle and built it up with epoxy to match the rail of the barrel but im not happy with the shape of the gun, i really want this one sexy as well as deadly.. all my guns are pretty ugly but shoot like a dream, chek out my old faithful 140 as an example...... i want a good looking gun like in the magazines :crazy:


    I will fill the barrel with high density foam and plug the handle end with a thin layer of epoxy.


    if you take a look at the pics below you will get an idea of what i mean, its hard to explain......


    Any gun builders, I would much prefer learning form your mistakes than make my own, any help is much appreciated.




    Cheers,
    Rusty

    pelaj muzzle on the barrel, not pinned just placed inside so its not 100% flush in the pics. Also one of my many ugly guns, this is my go to 140.... its missing the reel cause i put it on my 120, which is equally ugly...

    Stick those bad boys into a hybrid!! :cool2:


    You can always get in touch with Tin man and get him to custom make you a couple of muzzles (they are very nice).


    The muzzle that Dan sells is also nice, but i don't think it will work with that barrel ID (Dan?:confused1:)


    Not sure on what sort of handle (if your in AUS atm you could always get in touch with superfrog as i think he sells a couple of different types).


    Cheers

    Hey johno mate,


    Yeah talked to tony (edge) for ages about handles, he is probably one of the most knowledgable people in the world about this kind of thing. We discussed everything I want from the gun and so on, he is a cracking guy, so giving..... I was really keen on the merou until I talked with tony, so I switched over to the cobra bluewater handle. I'm def going to use it on the 31mm o.d barrel, and I will probably use the picasso magnum on the 28.2 O.D barrel.


    The only thing I'm not sure on is the muzzle, if its possible I will do it the way I said, cutting into the barrel and making it like an aimrite style..... If that's not possible I will go with a slip in muzzle, but that's a last resort...... I love the snake muzzles from Agro dive Imports and the pathos open muzzle is sweet too. Again getting a custom made muzzle would be my choice before getting anything off the shelf.


    Cheers for your input mate, appreciate it.

    I see possible issues with the fixed muzzle made of epoxy.


    First is it is fixed. I love the ability to change my euro guns as I want to


    Second it that the epoxy, granted you wil add filler, but it is not designed to have structural integrity on its own. I could see an odd vector of force cracking it.


    Lastly, the configuration you are looking for is a simple shape. In my mind the custom DIY stuff is best used for weird shapes and odd angles. You could take almost any open muzzle and drill out a band slot.


    I second a call to tinman. His delrin muzzles are on all my rob allens

    i like to spear fish

    LB, cheers for the insight, the epoxy and CF mix would be a core and the barrel would be the main source of strength..... This is why I thought filling it with a rod of 26.2mm HDPE might be better. I'm really keen to achieve the same look as the aimrite, mono lock look. Is there anyway of achieving this?


    I did talk to tinman ages ago about this but I guess he was busy cause we just lost contact..... That's what lead me on a wild goose chase for the right muzzle, which led me to the mono lock idea, which led me here, which led me back to tinman again lol

    The Merou handle and its variants including Aimrite, is not a good handle. It was good at it's time because it was one of the few available with a full stainless steel trigger mechanism (case, sear, trigger). But it has poor ergonomics. You will notice this when turning a gun that's somewhat long, the back of the handle will slip in you palm. Aimrite fans will disagree, but that's because they have not made an honest comparison with a good handle. So it's good you didn't choose the Merou handle.


    The Picasso Cobra is an interesting choice. Meandros makes a drop in full stainless steel mech for it. But the handle will require some modification.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMs7CM5peh4


    If you're going to modify the CF tube, don't drill, rather use grinding tools. I wouldn't do what you propose. CF has great structural integrity in some directions, but if you have an open edge, I feel it's a potential area for failure. Also I don't like that look and feel the design lacks versatility. If using a Derlrin rod insert, I'd make sure the slot in the Derlin is a little smaller than the slot in the CF tube walls, so that the rubber puts hardly any pressure on the tube walls. But then what's stopping the Derlin insert from being pushed in? Possibly a couple of screws through the tube wall, the ones for the line anchor perhaps. You said you want to fill the tube with high density foam. If you're going to use foam that has adequate resistance to compression at depth, it will be heavy, and defeat the purpose of a light CF tube.


    Because of all these complications, and lack of versatility, I'd stay away from the integrated band slot design. I would instead look for a muzzle that suits your taste. If the muzzle track is a little high, it can be easily reduced with a round file the same diameter as a shaft, and further polished with steel wool for an almost original looking finish.


    I'm interested to see how the Picasso handle matches up with this tube, and how the track lines up. If you can post a pic it would be great. If you try other handles and muzzles with this tube, which have a reasonably good fit, please post about it in this thread.

    Cheers for that Dan, Peter, meandros, actually has a handle of mine at the moment he is making a custom mech for it. I was thinking about chucking a nitro or nitro B in the cobra but a friend in Oz is very good at modding the original mechs to take 3x16mm bands so I am going to do that.


    But i agree Peter makes amazing mechs, I will post a thread when I get my custom mech for my Pelaj handle, it's for old faithful my 140 lol.


    I hear you about the muzzle, I was planning on pinning the delrin with a single horizontal pin and glueing it in place.


    Good idea about making the insert take the strain and not the barrel, I like that. The mono block idea is not an easy option know, but I if it will hold I will have a go. If its to going to take the strain then I will go with a slip in muzzle.......boring........


    About the foam, I was thinking about 4lbs, what do you reckon? Noted about the added weight mate, I'm not worried about it though, I'm actiually looking for added strength and a bit more weight for the triples.


    I will let you know how I go with muzzles if it comes downto it, there are some really nice ones around as a last resort. Am I missing anything or forgetting anything??

    The foam depends on how deep you're going to take the gun. Look up the crush specs for 4lb and 8lb foam. If you plug the tube properly you don't need the foam.


    You may want to look into this http://spearfishing.world/spea…un-building-material.html


    You're going to have a bit of a hard time finding a muzzle that fits nice because that tube is oval. Again if you do find something that fits nice I'm interested to know.

    I personally would not plug and drill the bands directly into the barrel, it will be very difficult to get a good transition from the edge of the barrel to the band hole and this will also become a weak point when loading them up.


    Where are the barrel's from?


    G'day Rusty


    Are you Wayne? We meet at Sealies years ago.


    I love your muzzle idea. If you don't mind me asking, where did you get this barrel from? All the CF barrels I have seen have thinner walls.:thumbsup2:


    An alternative solution would be to turn a timber plug, add some glue slots glue with epoxy and fillers.
    Once cured route the band slot, cut the muzzle and re-epoxy the barrel. I would love to try this as I am reasonable confident it would work. Only down side is the front of the muzzle and the band slot would have to be a solid colour.


    Don't forget the plugs!
    water stopper


    Best of luck mate.


    Regards


    Darren

    Holy crap $9 for a pair of rubber plugs!


    Did anyone try the D-Mart version of the expandable plug? I tried a similar one before and tightened as hard as it will go it would still move at less than 100lb pressure.

    I use Sikaflex (Polyurethane ) inside the barrel and pressed the plugs in. Seems to work well.


    I find a tapered plug works the best as you can get the nose in and the Poly lubricates it as you press it in place.


    I have not tries the expandable plug, sounds dodgy.

    Quote from Dan

    The foam depends on how deep you're going to take the gun. Look up the crush specs for 4lb and 8lb foam. If you plug the tube properly you don't need the foam.


    You may want to look into this http://spearfishing.world/spea…un-building-material.html


    You're going to have a bit of a hard time finding a muzzle that fits nice because that tube is oval. Again if you do find something that fits nice I'm interested to know.


    The difference between wall thickness is only 1mm on these barrels, as long as I get a good fit for the sides I can work the bottom of the muzzle to suit.


    The hammerhead pelagic muzzle would be workable my mate Barry has one and we worked it down with sandpaper to suit his gun, it's pretty soft material.....


    But yeah it's going to be a bit of messing around to get a truly flush finish. Will look into the syntactic foam link, cheers for that.



    Jono the barrels are from a mate of mine over east, he doesn't sell guns it was a gift. It's very similar to the aimrite pro barrels, very very similar.

    Hi Darren, nah I never met you till now, so nice to meet you! Are you over east bro or W.A?


    Mate can you talk me through your idea cause I don't quite follow, sorry mate, once I get it I can work with it and see how it goes.... Do you build guns?


    As mentioned the barrels are from a mate over east but if your interested and as you are in Oz I can sort you out with a one or two.... P.M me if your keen.......


    Barrel plugs, I like to use the tapered ones we get them from Clark's rubber for 2.70 each just soak it in petrol and tap it in with a rubber mallet and 15mm dowel. It helps if the dowel is narrow because it compresses the bung in the middle and helps it slide in. The pour epoxy over the plug just as an added layer. I'm going to foam the barrel, I want extra rigidity and weight, going to be running 3x16's on this gun. Dives up to 30m so I will look into the 8lb foam, cheers for the heads up Dan.


    If you have to smash it in then the bung is to big and you risk damaging to barrel.


    About the color Dan, I like the blue the most then red, then black. But I can see why you chose black, it's a safer option, a lot of my mates don't like e colored barrels. This barrel is going to be camouflage in ares and bare red twill in others.....


    My other barrel is a 28-33"" barrel with no built in rail, it's a horse! It's going to be a dedicated toad gun, but that's another story.... I don't want to deviate from this topic....

    Quote from Rusty

    Hi Darren, nah I never met you till now, so nice to meet you! Are you over east bro or W.A?


    Mate can you talk me through your idea cause I don't quite follow, sorry mate, once I get it I can work with it and see how it goes.... Do you build guns?


    No worries Rusty, sorry, your avatar looks like a bloke I met on a long week end diving some years ago. I am in NSW.


    This is the muzzle of one of my latest guns, same principle of carbon wrapped timber core.




    Just make a long version of:



    I would suggest epoxy with fillers to bond it into the pipe. The guide and anchor will also provide mechanical fastening too. Then route the band slot like in my image.


    Please note carbon is a hazardous material, a good dust extraction system and a dust mask is critical when machining.

    Which will leave the inside of the band slot as exposed teak right? As well as the front of the muzzle where you would see the core with the barrel as an exterior..... Correct?


    So do you think that this would work, that the barrel will take the pressure of the bands? I would of course sand them back nice and smooth and route the leading back edge as you have pictured.


    What about the exposed wood, just west systems over it to avoid water contact and thus swelling?


    Cheers mate, I'm liking this.........


    Cheers bro

    If you have a close look at my muzzle it is not 100% carbon. I used tinted epoxy. This whole gun is timber wrapped in carbon fibre.


    If you have a good look at the King Venom, the front of the muzzle is a black plug and the band slot is all black too.


    Once the band slot is routered and the muzzle is cut (like the Aimrite is easy) I would then coat the timber with tinted epoxy. Only down side to the red Kevlar is it makes the blank tint stand out a little more.


    I am sure it will work and if I could get one of your barrels in black I would knock up a hybrid with it.

    I have black carbon oval barrel;
    OD31-31.98
    ID26.2
    L1500mm


    150$


    Will do you a deal if you do my muzzle for me:thumbsup2:

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