Black Delrin handles with Shapelock grip

  • No sweat. I've just been pondering ways to make a Delrin / Shapelock Riffe handle. I think I might have something, if I have a big enough piece of scrap at home. If it works, can I get a volunteer to test drive it?

  • Perhaps it's lack of use/familiarity/water-time?

    Was that a jab :laughing:


    You're right it's all personal preference. There will be people I suppose who will like the Aimrite handle, but there will also be people that won't. Those that won't who are inexperienced may not realize that there are others who don't like it either.


    With regards to water time :) You know I'm no big diver, I don't get out nearly as often as I like, hopefully that will change very soon. But I do have some experience setting up guys with gear, fins for example. Part of this involves observing them try the fins for the first time. Naturally I look for the wow factor, where the diver immediately recognizes the performance difference. Sometimes I get this reaction and sometimes it's not as pronounced depending on what the diver has been using previously and when was his last time in the water. Lets say he was using fiberglass fins and hasn't dove in a month. He'll be like yeah these are pretty good, light and cool looking, I'll take them. In this case I get the wow factor at a later time. The diver will at some point after having gotten accustomed to the new fins switch back temporarily to his old fins, maybe just for the hell of it, the consistent reaction is "I can't believe I used to use those.. and like them".


    My point is a performance difference is much more dramatic and obvious to a diver when going from one thing to another that's not as good, versus the other way around, going from something to another that's better. Same with the Aimrite handle, the moment I gripped it (in the water) I knew it sucks because I was using something better previously, so I didn't need more water time with it. If I had to point out the main negative aspect of it; it's so small in diameter and pointed straight down that you can't turn the gun, it slips inside your palm as if you were trying to hold a dowel.


    Handles such as Alexander and Merou with that back swell, while being better than the Aimrite handle, create a similar problem where the back swell turns inside the palm. A good handle that I've seen recently was on the seac speargun. A handle is such a simple thing when you understand that it's all about the angle, it's amazing so many manufacturers can't get it right.

  • I've never grown an appreciation for the Riffe handles or the way they attach them in a manner that lowers your hand placement. Quote: Fuzz


    Funny you should say that.
    In the very early 80's Jay and I dove together a lot, he used beautiful hand crafted addict guns, made I believe by George E Kuznecovs ( a master gun builder). When J stared building guns in his garage to sell, he used a cut down UnderSee pipe gun handle to go with the mechs he imported from Australia. One day he said to me, ''hey Don you have a handle off one of those old pneumatic spearguns I can borrow'' ?
    ''I only need it for a few weeks''..... One month later... Me,.'' Jay you finished with that handle, it is off
    a mint Techisub Jaguar I have''?
    Jay.... ''Well me and my brother had to cut it a little so the casting guy could pull a mold''.
    So the moral of this story is, its a perfect handle for a very old air gun.:D
    FWIW the best handle for rme (other then mine cast from my hand) is on the 1970's Mares Titan.
    Sorry no image handy.
    Cheers, Don

    "Great mother ocean brought forth all life, it is my eternal home'' Don Berry from Blue Water Hunters.


    Spearfishing Store the freediving and spearfishing equipment specialists.

    Edited 4 times, last by Don Paul ().

  • Shite Tin man, I just noticed this is a Member's Items section, don't mean to muck up your post.
    I can move it to Vintage Guns if you like.
    Cheers, Don

    "Great mother ocean brought forth all life, it is my eternal home'' Don Berry from Blue Water Hunters.


    Spearfishing Store the freediving and spearfishing equipment specialists.

  • Cool story Don.


    When I made my first handle I traced out a Mares Cyrano handle, seemed like a good comfortable angle to start with. Then I reduced and added in different places to get what I use today. It's been the same since.

  • Riffe Baja 4 is a speargun hard to be improved upon, it can hold a handle against any gun in the market, (other than customs) The riffe Euro is quite afine gun but the handle is somewhat short, that is one handle that could be substitued with a custom one.

    I'm a Speardiver, not a freediver

  • Was that a jab :laughing:


    :laughing3:


    No it wasn't a jab. Hell, I don't know how often you get out and I'm pretty darn sure you have no idea how often or where I dive. :)


    I meant water-time with the specific handles. There have been many dive items that I didn't like at first, but I've grown to appreciate. Some... I just grew to dislike more. I've spent a lot of time with the Riffe range of guns as well as the Wong range of guns, so have a pretty good feel for both. Definitely like the Aimrite handle a lot better. As we both agree - it's personal preference. Not trying to change your mind, but as you said, just provide information on my views so others can take what they want from the info.



    Same with the Aimrite handle, the moment I gripped it (in the water) I knew it sucks because I was using something better previously, so I didn't need more water time with it. If I had to point out the main negative aspect of it; it's so small in diameter and pointed straight down that you can't turn the gun, it slips inside your palm as if you were trying to hold a dowel.


    Handles such as Alexander and Merou with that back swell, while being better than the Aimrite handle, create a similar problem where the back swell turns inside the palm. A good handle that I've seen recently was on the seac speargun. A handle is such a simple thing when you understand that it's all about the angle, it's amazing so many manufacturers can't get it right.


    Which Seac? I haven't used the pneumatics, but tried the Gabbiano & had an Xfire until recently.


    The Aimrite handle is actually a little bit bigger than the Alexander handle. The Alexander's palm swell just gives it a different feel. The palm swell also gives the Alexander a roughly 10% more angled rake at top of the grip and makes the rake "feel" more exaggerated due to the concave front portion. From your modified riffe handle, it's obvious you like a very angled rake, so it's understandable why you have a bias against the Aimrite.



    Another consideration - your comments about how the handle feels small & difficult to turn the gun. This is partially a phyisical issue as some people with gorilla hands like the Riffe handles and some people with smaller hands would prefer the Wong handle. I have average sized hands (sz L gloves), & still find the Riffe handle a tad too big. I also find the Riffe euro handle too small, but that's a whole other thread.


    It's also partly a conceptual difference. For example, we all know how mid-handle users complain that railguns are hard to swing, when it's really a completely different diving technique/style. Likewise, I try to use my body to position the gun whether mid or rear-handle. When I do track, I almost never track my guns laterally side to side - they're always turned at 45deg or 90deg (gangsta style). Subconscious action, never noticed till watching some vid, but it makes sense for any handle. The force you can swing side to side with is much greater when handle is tilted. Just like having a long euro tucked underneath and smoothly and instinctually extending, it's not really a thought... just part of how I dive. Since that discovery, I've seen many others doing the same, whether on purpose or not. For that reason, switching to/from Aimrite handles doesn't even cross my mind. It handles well for me & provides a stable platform. There's never a time I can remember thinking that the handle was a liability. I did change for an Alexander handle when I got a handle from one of the flexible batches, but just never changed back out of laziness.




    For rear-handles, I do personally prefer a bit more rake; however, the vast majority of Wong's guns are mid-handles or rear-handle plus... both of which work well with the existing handle's angle. As a side note - since DW & Rick split ways, all Aimrite's railguns are the merou-copy handles, and the handles that we're both referring to as "aimrite" handles are actually DW handles. Hard habit to break for me too.



    Long winded and hopefully coherent. :)

  • No sweat. I've just been pondering ways to make a Delrin / Shapelock Riffe handle. I think I might have something, if I have a big enough piece of scrap at home. If it works, can I get a volunteer to test drive it?


    I'm your huckleberry - always game to be a crash test dummy. :thumbsup2:

  • Riffe Baja 4 is a speargun hard to be improved upon, it can hold a handle against any gun in the market, (other than customs) The riffe Euro is quite afine gun but the handle is somewhat short, that is one handle that could be substitued with a custom one.


    Agreed... except for the handle. You have big hands, so it might fit perfectly well for you! :)



    The riffe euro would be easier to modify with a replacement handle since it uses a flat plate. No challenge for Tinman's skills. ;)



    One thing I found annoying - Riffe has different interfaces for their handles... so you can't use a competitor handle on a mid-handle body or vice versa. Same with the metaltech - they all use that radius style stock interface, but 3 different design configurations. I know the competitor series is really popular due to price and versatility, so that'd probably be the best TinMan target. :thumbsup2:

  • As coherent as it gets :)


    This is the Seac handle I was referring to.





    This bump on the bottom back of my handle is what you call a rake? It makes tracking (if necessary) a breeze without tilting the gun. Especially easy is tracking up.




  • I really liked that x-fire. What bummed me out was they hyped the shaft as being some hard material... but mine came bent! What good is a shaft made out of awesome material if the bugger is bent. :rolleyes1:
    Someday I'll get another. Oh, the gabbiano I was using turns out to be a seatec, not seac-sub. I was wondering... cause they were far removed in design.


    Rake angle is basically just the angle of the handle. Your modified competitor (from a couple years ago) was an extreme rake because it was almost horizontal. Rear-handles benefit from more rake because it puts everything in a straight line - shoulder-arm-wrist-grip-barrel. Mid-handles can use more vertical angle since you have a hand behind your shooting hand & resting on your forearm... which lends itself to a slightly more vertical default shooting hand angle.


    If you're looking for ergonomics of the back lower portion of your handle, do some research on match shooting pistols. i.e.

    Edited once, last by fuzz ().

  • Key difference though. Match shooting rifles and pistols are typically smaller calibre, with minimal recoil. Do you think that the shape would be as optimal backing up something with more oomph?

  • Dammit, my last long rambling post just disappeared into cyberspace... :angry5:
    So here's my ultra-condensed version:








    Key difference though. Match shooting rifles and pistols are typically smaller calibre, with minimal recoil. Do you think that the shape would be as optimal backing up something with more oomph?


    I have no idea... that's why I recommended Dan look into it. Figure, have him do the dirty work. :D



    The exaggerated match-pistol shape seems to be very popular with the major european gun makers.
    Here's a small sampling of abellansub, dapiran, & bluetec:





  • I was thinking about the T.M. custom handle for the Riffe gun. that would be something I would really want to see and feel. For the whole price of a Riffe Euro + custom handle a Sea Sniper enclosed tracked euro keep popping into my mind tho.


    Pertaining Riffe Standard and Comp handles, those are ugly but tough. And I can´t accurate describe it but there´s something that doesn´t feel completely right about them. The only complain that I have about the older Aimrite handles was not the design but the brittle material they used to be made of. I had bad luck with aimrite stuff, some muzzles did brake on me too. Very odd but true. I am sure Daryl is in the process of improving quality on those items too. Don t see any persons complaining about them anymore.

    I'm a Speardiver, not a freediver

  • Recoil wise, Those hammerli pistols have a set of lead counterbalances along the stock to keep the pistol perfectly still. I guess the same principle is used in guns as say the C4 Urukay.

    I'm a Speardiver, not a freediver

  • Recoil wise, Those hammerli pistols have a set of lead counterbalances along the stock to keep the pistol perfectly still. I guess the same principle is used in guns as say the C4 Urukay.


    Here is a shape from C4 Tin Man may like, It's a mod for C4 users, but I'm sure hi priced.
    Don

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