If your dive buddy doesn't surface

Quote from Dan

I want to start a discussion to establish a protocol for the divers on the surface, to give the blackout victim the best possible chance of survival. I don't want this to be a discussion of "safe diving practices" that should've been followed by the victim, just the scenario where one or two divers are on the surface, with and without a boat, and one diver that fails to surface.

I must make one exception to state that in this situation the victim wearing a Freedivers Recovery Vest would be a huge factor in increasing his chances for survival. If the victim is not wearing an FRV and one of the divers on the surface is, could also be a big determining factor. Raising an unconscious body from depth is no easy task, but simply reaching the victim and grabbing hold, then inflating your own FRV will raise both divers effortlessly to the surface.

First I salute Dan for:
1. Starting this very important thread, specific to help spearos formulate a protocol or PLAN of ACTION "to give the blackout victim the best possible chance of survival."
2. Supporting the use of the FRV as a life saving tool for those of us at risk of swb on EVERY freedive.

Second:
Background to my plan---Since Oct. 2008, (my SWB) I ALWAYS wear a manual inflatable PFD on EVERY spearfishing freedive, so MY PLAN goes like this.
I watch my buddy until he surfaces and tells me he is good. If my buddy "fails to surface", I IMMEDIATELY breath up and drop on him. I plan on swimming down as fast as possible, grabbing my buddy, stripping off his weight belt, pulling the co2 inflate cord on my vest and hanging onto my buddy. As we shoot for the surface I plan to drop my own weight belt. Once on the surface my plan to keep my buddies face above the water until he is safe.
This is MY PLAN only. It may not be the right PLAN for you or your conditions/situations.

My buddy Davo usually has a Carter Float attached to his weight belt. I'm guessing he had one that day as well, he had a whistle, he had a Big Urukay gun, but he was lost in the glare and Ocean and Motor sounds. I wasn't on the boat that day. In Indonesia, it's common to dive in strong currents, so if you are diving on a small island or high spot, you would start above the island and then pass on either side of it. Usually there is an eddy on the leeward side, but if you get out past the eddy, the currents can be ferocious.. whirlpools. Sure, a Floatline may have helped, maybe not, and float lines do disappear sometimes.. I've lost several to tuna. but it was the last drift and he opted not to use one. My understanding is that once the sun went down and he had been unable to contact the boat, or make it back to the smaller island, that he immediately changed his goal from maintaining a position, to pro actively swimming for the nearest attainable shoreline. Had Davo decided to pop his Carter Float and rest on it and await rescue the next day, he would most probably never have been found.

The point of the story is that the best thing you can do if someone disappears is to immediately increase your resources by calling for help. In that case, they could have had one group looking for a floating diver and one for a diver below the surface. Currents add an exponential element to the search grounds. Everyone in that boat was thinking about the first five minutes.. but in doing so, they went hurriedly to the top of the drift, and this caused them to actually lose Davo.

Quote from behslayer

My buddy Davo usually has a Carter Float attached to his weight belt. I'm guessing he had one that day as well, he had a whistle, he had a Big Urukay gun, but he was lost in the glare and Ocean and Motor sounds. I wasn't on the boat that day. In Indonesia, it's common to dive in strong currents, so if you are diving on a small island or high spot, you would start above the island and then pass on either side of it. Usually there is an eddy on the leeward side, but if you get out past the eddy, the currents can be ferocious.. whirlpools. Sure, a Floatline may have helped, maybe not, and float lines do disappear sometimes.. I've lost several to tuna. but it was the last drift and he opted not to use one. My understanding is that once the sun went down and he had been unable to contact the boat, or make it back to the smaller island, that he immediately changed his goal from maintaining a position, to pro actively swimming for the nearest attainable shoreline. Had Davo decided to pop his Carter Float and rest on it and await rescue the next day, he would most probably never have been found.

The point of the story is that the best thing you can do if someone disappears is to immediately increase your resources by calling for help. In that case, they could have had one group looking for a floating diver and one for a diver below the surface. Currents add an exponential element to the search grounds. Everyone in that boat was thinking about the first five minutes.. but in doing so, they went hurriedly to the top of the drift, and this caused them to actually lose Davo.

I think these factors and their impact need to be weighed carefully in different situations. For instance, most of the places I dive being lost by the boat would be nothing more than kind of annoying, a short swim to the beach with no real risk of being taken out to sea, not to mention a huge probability of floating past another boat because the reefs are often trafficked like highways here. Ideally both can be done at the same time. While someone calls for help others look. But in instances where it becomes a choice those important few seconds/minutes after a person blacks out may be wasted hedging against a bet that doesn't really cost all that much to lose in some situations. On the other hand the outcome of putting effort into looking for someone on the surface who wasnt on it is certain.

Yes. this is true. If you are diving in an area with no drift, no currents, you wouldn't think too much about losing someone at Sea, but in many places it is a consideration. For example, the Race up here in RI. However, in any case, if you have a radio/phone and can let out a call for help immediately, it can increase your resources. In the case of a reef trafficked with other boats, you could increase your resources exponentially with a quick mayday. I think the issue we are skirting around here is whether you take the time to send out a Mayday if someone is unaccounted for. My suggestion is that sending out a Mayday even with only one person on the boat is a good course of immediate action. This immediately sets into motion more than you can do on your own. If your dive buddy turns up. No worries, Call them back and apologize. If not.. and you are alone, now in the water, pulling your buddy to the surface, trying to figure out how to get them back into the boat, or initiate CPR in the water... etc.. you already have help on the way. Here in the USA, and down there in Fla.. those guys get their quick. They may show up in a Helicopter in 2-3 minutes. In the places I've been diving for the past 20 years, there is no back up. There is nobody to call. Here in the USA you have this Giant Help button. Any shit happens. press the button first. What does it cost you in time to call, in a mayday? With only one person on the boat maybe 30 seconds. With more than one, less. How much time do you think it takes one person to haul up a friend from 80ft, get them into a boat and then initiate CPR?

The story of Davo, is important to keep in mind. We all dive in currents, drifts, or from drifting boats. With several people onboard, what could have happened was groups of divers with Buoys and Floatlines, whistles, could have jumped in at the top of the drift. At the same time the boat could have gone way down drift and Zig Zagged up. Not ideal.. but could have worked. Instead everyone focussed on the SWB, and Dave drifted into the Indian Ocean. Had this happened in a place where a Radio call could have brought in resources, the tasks could be divided and inherently safer and more effective.

In a boat with a functioning radio a mayday call is like you said, nearly immediate. In those instances I agree even a single person should absolutely use it to quickly hail for help before going after the person. All it takes it hitting the red "mayday channel" button and yelling into the mic for a few seconds. On a nicer boat with an expensive radio its even more of a no brainer, the GPS is hooked up to the radio and the mayday is automatic and will broadcast the mayday + GPS position to all nearby boats once the oh shit button is activated.

However I think there are a great many number of boats is disrepair, kayaks, shoredivers etc who would be hailing for help by finding their cellphone and dialing 911, waiting for an operator, explaining to them whats happening, and then relaying your position to someone who probably isnt totally familiar with the process. I feel like this factor changes the cost/benefit a great deal and makes it not so much of a no brainier when there is minimal "out to sea" danger. I have probably done far more diving without a working radio than with. This is the reason I purchased a nataulis lifeline and carry it with me while diving.

My point isnt so much that either way is absolutely right but rather the pros and cons of a specific plan need to be measured carefully against the factors and conditions involved, and a course of action should be tailored to those conditions. Losing a person in the middle of a glass flat currentless day 1 mile from the beach who has a float is quite different (and pretty much impossible in those conditions) from losing someone with only a reel in a ripping tide at sundown, in a boiling sea in the middle of nowhere that spits you out into bluewater.

The story Dan posted from Cam also shows that a drowning victim is not always out of the woods once brought to the surface. That you can basically drown after the fact due to poor lung function. For that reason having help waiting topside is another huge advantage to getting a mayday call out first.

I think this brings up the fact that a working turned on radio is an important safety device on the water overlooked by many. A cell phone is not a direct link to the coast guard/other boaters. Any working VHF radio with decent range is.

I am almost certain the SCUBA charter captains have procedures and drill for "missing diver". The Coastguard would be another good resource for info. I think Step one is to mark the surface with a heavily weighted (spare belt), highly visible buoy or float where the diver was last seen and allow it to drift in the current.

I used to bring one all the time and have used it to retrieve fish holed up with my 100 foot float line, 20 feet shooting line and 8 foot bungee……stretched right straight up and down. No way I was going to try and free dive down to get the fish, which had holed up inside a small cave, up into the ceiling and was laying on a ledge behind my head.
I have 4 tanks, compressor, 3 regs, two backplate/wings. I could just grab the gear, open the valve and jump over, strapping it on as I descend while looking for my buddy. I get chills thinking about it and hope to God I'd never have to resort to it but it does make a lot of sense. Ability to search and ability to react when you find your buddy. All positives. Air to breath for both.

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I think scuba equipment is a very good tool to have on the boat. Not just for emergency rescue situations but also for situations that are risky rescue situations waiting to happen (getting a fish out of a deep hole, unsticking an anchor or shaft at a depth at the limit of your capabilities) I have no misgivings about the lack of purity or sport in situations like that.

But understanding of scuba physiology and safety as well as experience with equipment is very important to using it correctly. I would be extremely worried that a freediver in an emergency situation without scuba knowledge and practice could make a deadly mistake quite easily. Pulmonary Barotrauma caused by lung overexpansion is extremely easy to cause. All it takes is a deep breath at depth and holding it as you surface and your lungs literally explode.

Quote from Reefchief

I think scuba equipment is a very good tool to have on the boat. Not just for emergency rescue situations but also for situations that are risky rescue situations waiting to happen (getting a fish out of a deep hole, unsticking an anchor or shaft at a depth at the limit of your capabilities) I have no misgivings about the lack of purity or sport in situations like that.

But understanding of scuba physiology and safety as well as experience with equipment is very important to using it correctly. I would be extremely worried that a freediver in an emergency situation without scuba knowledge and practice could make a deadly mistake quite easily. Pulmonary Barotrauma caused by lung overexpansion is extremely easy to cause. All it takes is a deep breath at depth and holding it as you surface and your lungs literally explode.

This ^^^ is VERY good information, especially here on "SPEARDIVER, The Freedive Spearfishing Forum"

Hank--nice boat and nice haul sir. Congrats

Quote from Reefchief

I think scuba equipment is a very good tool to have on the boat. Not just for emergency rescue situations but also for situations that are risky rescue situations waiting to happen (getting a fish out of a deep hole, unsticking an anchor or shaft at a depth at the limit of your capabilities) I have no misgivings about the lack of purity or sport in situations like that.

But understanding of scuba physiology and safety as well as experience with equipment is very important to using it correctly. I would be extremely worried that a freediver in an emergency situation without scuba knowledge and practice could make a deadly mistake quite easily. Pulmonary Barotrauma caused by lung overexpansion is extremely easy to cause. All it takes is a deep breath at depth and holding it as you surface and your lungs literally explode.

Very true. Thanks for posting that. I became an open water instructor in 1999. Jake is open water certified by yours truly. You may not need a free dive course but it would be a great help to do a scuba course.

Quote from Reefchief

I think scuba equipment is a very good tool to have on the boat. Not just for emergency rescue situations but also for situations that are risky rescue situations waiting to happen (getting a fish out of a deep hole, unsticking an anchor or shaft at a depth at the limit of your capabilities) I have no misgivings about the lack of purity or sport in situations like that.

But understanding of scuba physiology and safety as well as experience with equipment is very important to using it correctly. I would be extremely worried that a freediver in an emergency situation without scuba knowledge and practice could make a deadly mistake quite easily. Pulmonary Barotrauma caused by lung overexpansion is extremely easy to cause. All it takes is a deep breath at depth and holding it as you surface and your lungs literally explode.

If you're rescuing a drowning unconscious victim using a SCUBA tank, they are most likely not going to be responsive enough to start breathing through a regulator. I would just focus on getting them to the surface instead of trying to deliver rescue breaths underwater and risking trauma to the lungs.

After they are at the surface you can begin rescue breathing. Use immediate and aggressive measures. Start as soon as you surface, even in the water. Expect the person to vomit during rescue breathing.

Once you are on a boat or back on shore (if shorediving) check for a pulse and begin compressions if absent. Continue CPR until rescue arrives. If victim recovers before rescue arrives, they still should be evaluated at a hospital because they can still suffer from respiratory problems after the fact.

I dont mean someone blowing up the victims lungs, I totally agree if someone is unconscious underwater sticking a regulator in his mouth is not going to make him breath. Im more talking about an untrained freediver who only knows the concept, sensation, and muscle memory of holding their breath while submerged jumping in with a scuba tank or pony bottle for the first time, attempting to rescue someone on it, and between the adrenaline, inexperience, and focus on the rescue, holding their breath as they surface. It would be a hell of a time to practice the "dont hold your breath" mantra of scuba.

Say the abc's. It works. You start stand automatically keep going it is so ingrained in us.

Most powerful tool you can have onboard to give a diver a fighting chance is oxygen. Here you need to be certified to administrator.

Oxygen is good. It's standard on scuba boats for DCS primary treatment. But free diving, finding the victim fast is critical and finding and getting to the surface while free diving is infinitely more difficult. Imagine getting a visual but not reaching your buddy, just as you have to surface. It's rough, not so great vis…..and you have to breath up and hope you find him again. Shit.

Quote from LunkerBuster

This is a very important thread. Regardless of what you decide is the right protocol, DECIDE on A protocol and make certain your dive buddies and boat guests all know it.

In the ER we deal with L/D situations often. My team runs through "procedure skills" at least once a week (if we are not already doing the REAL thing). Nothing beats training and frequent practice to eliminate confusion and to increase successful outcomes.

Hau your a ER doctor or nurse?

RN

Cool bro, handy to have you as a dive buddy!