Took the boys out for a run and a couple catches..graphic

    Quote from Aaron Proffitt

    See that first pic of the two racing ? See how broad that dog's chest is ? That is one powerful animal....

    I noticed that.


    Great pics.

    Quote from Aaron Proffitt

    Fact of the matter is....killing often defies logic.Even in the animal world . It's done and so be it.Killing satisfies something in me that only killing does. It transcends the physical like hunger or sex...it's spiritual.

    If you'd like to illuminate Aaron.. I always wondered what it is that guys are saying when they say they love to kill. I don't like to kill, I actually have a strong aversion to it, I empathize too much with the animal. I like the hunt and the chase and when killing is part of that it's fine with me because I'm too focused on the hunt to care. Probably a more closer to natural state of being. But understanding that it's still a long shot from sticking a knife into a beast's heart and giving it a slow twist while looking into it's eyes.


    I can gain great satisfaction from killing a foe/adversary but it's still another sense of achievement.


    So tell me; when you say you love to kill, what exactly do you love? Watching life leave the animal or the hunt; adrenalin rush/focus/relief.

    Quote from Dan

    If you'd like to illuminate Aaron.. I always wondered what it is that guys are saying when they say they love to kill. I don't like to kill, I actually have a strong aversion to it, I empathize too much with the animal. I like the hunt and the chase and when killing is part of that it's fine with me because I'm too focused on the hunt to care. Probably a more closer to natural state of being. But understanding that it's still a long shot from sticking a knife into a beast's heart and giving it a slow twist while looking into it's eyes.


    I can gain great satisfaction from killing a foe/adversary but it's still another sense of achievement.


    So tell me; when you say you love to kill, what exactly do you love? Watching life leave the animal or the hunt; adrenalin rush/focus/relief.


    The kill is a culmination of when all things align and everything is perfect...than it happens. I won't shoot one that's treed or send terriers in after one gone to ground.If I am calling, I won't shoot one I happen upon.


    So when it happens in the prescribed manner...than it was meant to be. Kismet.And I am the participant of it.His star aligned with mine and it was his turn. The kill is the climax of that animal's life and I was there to see it. It's hard to explain...I'm not a sadist. But death is a certainty for us all....a violent death is assured in nature.I feel we are a part of nature. Having the ability to shit indoors doesn't mean we aren't a part of nature...we've only been shitting inside for a 200 years, a 100 years ago the very place where my home sits was still covered by tee-pees and buffalo.We're not that domestic.



    Perhaps overly romanticized....but the romance makes it personal. And it's damn personal to the coyote.



    BTW....these are the kinds of questions I love to answer. It's not an attack or a condemnation.It's a genuine desire for understanding.

    Overly romanticized indeed, you delved into the metaphysical there. That bit you wrote, albeit eloquent, sounds like a justification. While interesting to read I was asking more in terms of basic emotions.


    I've heard another say it and I agree, a lot of it is about possession. I think it's hard for me as a spearfisher to gain an appreciation for the kill because fish are not dangerous game.

    very cool info on the last two pages....I would like to contribute another perspective to this discussion.
    Ican honestly say that I truely "feel" Aaron's point about the hunt and the kill. That resonates within me, however I have never done it...I feel the inner primal urge, but I have become, for the moment, too pussified to do the dirty part, and i have way too much respect for life to kill without responsibility, so I sit, with a foot in each camp and quite some tension.


    The blood lust can manifest itself in a lot of ways. I believe that the urge to dominate another creature is a manifestation of this and the hunt and capture of fish is a part of that... I respect where yo uare coming from Dan, to you the killing is the thing that has to happen at the end, but i propose that the whole process cannot be bifurcated...to love the hunt, to relish the battle or to savor the kill are all just different moments in the same instant.


    I love to hunt, it makes me feel alive and smart and strong, I am using my skills to beat something that is designed to live and survive in that environment, that makes me feel, for lack of a better word, cool.
    I also relish the kill, specifically the killshot. the instant when I have decided that this fish is now going to die so I can eat it. there is a beautiful power and a humbling responsibility that consume me at that instant... I relish both...if you don't feel the responsibilty then I think you might be doing this for the wrong reason.


    I really like the idea of using a dog more than a high powered rifle...they are both tools no?

    i like to spear fish

    on a totally side note.. Ifeel like that canine targeted poison is horrible shit...i have heard of many dogs on trails dying...makes me think either it is being cafelessly used or it is a bad delivery system...what is your take Aaron since you mentioned it

    i like to spear fish

    I think the same point can be conveyed the Don Berry's-Blue Water Hunter's (whether he meant it or not I don't know), the last few lines, where he mentions a memory more permanent than painted stone, we are all part of the cycle. A species becoming extinct or thriving and becoming overpopulated doesn't make a difference.


    Humans have always been apex predators and I use that word predaotrs deliberately, we sit up there with sharks, bears all the other top predators, yeah a bear may have claws a shark teeth, but we have a bigger brain thats our weapon; it is a little different.


    But we all hunt,we all stalk, we all kill, if you appreciate doing one how could you not appreciate the other.

    Quote from Dan

    Overly romanticized indeed, you delved into the metaphysical there. That bit you wrote, albeit eloquent, sounds like a justification. While interesting to read I was asking more in terms of basic emotions.


    I've heard another say it and I agree, a lot of it is about possession. I think it's hard for me as a spearfisher to gain an appreciation for the kill because fish are not dangerous game.


    Basic emotion would be triumph...referring back to what I said everything has to come together correctly; otherwise the coyote (in this case ) lives . Same way I won't shoot bumped birds or pass shoot ducks when I have decoys out.

    Quote from LunkerBuster

    on a totally side note.. Ifeel like that canine targeted poison is horrible shit...i have heard of many dogs on trails dying...makes me think either it is being cafelessly used or it is a bad delivery system...what is your take Aaron since you mentioned it


    At the time, it was pretty good shit , LB. It's set in such a way that you target a coyotes territorial extinct as opposed to a food attractant that could draw in anything like domestic dogs, birds of prey and such. That's what poisoned meat leads to....alot of lethal by-catch. Very bad. Hawks dropping out of the sky and dead kit foxes are very bad for business; and it's a poor practice.


    M-44's are set using methods that employee a type of strychnine that is kept contained in a capsule until the trap is triggered . The traps are "baited" or set using scent post sets . When the coyote triggers the trap a spring discharges the capsule right in it's face Based on the fact that the coyote is usually found with-in 100 feet , I'd say it works pretty damn quick.


    Fortunantly, it's a pretty complicated system and most people don't have the Federal license to use one. I do but have seen it used and was mentored by a guy that used them alot in conjunction with other methods. I, however, have used it, like, never. I find predatory pressure to be most effective. Even more so than denning....and it saves me the the ghastly task of sending in terriers to off the pups. I hate that. But, if you hit the den than you have to off everything in it or else you just compounded the issue for the rancher already having a depredation issue.

    As a side, aside from lethal fast dogs and calling ( it is alot of fun to call 'em in ....I talked to one for 20 minutes right outside my bedroom window the other night before I pissed him off enough to charge into the yard...then I continued to challenge him for another 30 minutes.) I love using steel traps . I have the option than of relocating them. Don't believe the hype... you release them from the trap using a catch pole, give them a shot of antibiotics and antiseptic spray on the foot that got pinched, and release them anywhere you want.We like to do it in areas heavy with feral pigs or sell them to live pens .They're good as new save for a scrape on the foot that got caught.No broken bones or chewed off legs. I like the Collar-ums, too.

    Quote from Kyle c

    How are they at killing the pigs?


    Pretty effective with the litters...however, a sow can have 3 litters a year. They stay busy.


    Here's a dirty little secret...feral former domestic cats reck havoc on a enviornment . Coyotes wreck havoc on "ditch cougars". I'm a cat lover so it's not about killing cats....it's about getting them out of where they don't belong. Cats have been hell on quail for years.

    Quote from LunkerBuster

    I also relish the kill, specifically the killshot. the instant when I have decided that this fish is now going to die so I can eat it. there is a beautiful power and a humbling responsibility that consume me at that instant... I relish both...if you don't feel the responsibilty then I think you might be doing this for the wrong reason

    You see that moment right there is getting close to the timing of my question. At this point that you're describing I'm just thinking; will the shot hold. How does that fall in with "relishing the kill"? Doesn't sound close to me. Maybe that's why I don't understand it when some say they enjoy the kill. To me the kill is the creature dying, and that is simply something it has to do to complete the process of the harvest.

    Quote from Dan

    You see that moment right there is getting close to the timing of my question. At this point that you're describing I'm just thinking; will the shot hold. How does that fall in with "relishing the kill"? Doesn't sound close to me. Maybe that's why I don't understand it when some say they enjoy the kill. To me the kill is the creature dying, and that is simply something it has to do to complete the process of the harvest.


    That wasn't how I meant it.... to enjoy the kill is to appreciate the culmination . The process of dying for whatever animal...if done correctly should be a non-issue.It should be over so quick that it's the anti-climax .

    for me that moment of accomplishment is from seeing the fish, realizing ur getting closer and it hasnt spooked yet, lining up and taking the shot,, and then ends when u realize that u made a good shot and its held. as dan said the fishing dieing is just a step in the harvest.,, but i think thats basicaly what aaron just said

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