Tin Man's automatic line release system

Hey pargo i beleive honestly that Tin Man and Wood Guy did it again. That is a nice looking system. I'm always amazed on how this 2 come along and build stuff. It really shows the kills they got. Gun is looking sweet. I guess i will understand this build better once i see this gun in my hands;).

Pargo,

There is a small washer that sits on the bottom of the tab slot. The narrow part of the sleeve sits on that, allowing the narrow part of the sleeve to contain the spring windings. I didn't do as good a job with the pictures on the last two posts, and they don't show it very well.

Bill

I looked at the pictures of the line release again and now I understand the confusion. The first picture doesn't show all of the shoulder that was eventually cut off. If you look at the second and third pictures you can see that the shoulder is now long enough to contain the spring and still have room for the sleeve (it's supposed to be .380" long and at first I had only made it .200" long, which is it's diameter.)

Does this system works with the slot on the trigger or it works alone? like the spring is strong enought to hold the line and flexible enough to release as the shaft go out?

Pucho

The line release lever works in the trigger slot just like a typical line release. When the gun is cocked, the trigger holds the release back, and keeps the line in place. When the trigger is fired, the line pulls against the small spring, and the release moves forward.

After the line pulls free, the little spring moves the line release lever back into position, so that you can insert the shaft and cock the gun without having to make sure that the release isn't in the way.

How is the spring attached to the lever?

We're going to take some more detailed pictures to show an "exploded" view, but the spring attachment is easy. Just beside the large hole in the lever, there is a much smaller hole. The spring wire is bent down, and inserts through the small hole. In earlier versions, I just filed a small slot in the side of the large hole, and that worked fine as well, if you don't have the means to drill a tiny hole.

I'll try to post some more detailed and dimensioned drawings as well.

Gotcha. Just thought the space was very confined to find the hole in the lever or the wire(coming outta the hole) with lever. Pics will be good.:D

I told you all this 2 are the McGuyver family, According to Bill Jeff is the RAMBO of the family. That will tell you what kind of combination and technology he uses:D. I bet this trigger is going to be smooth;)

This gun is going to be:

:overkill:

I think the following series of pics will help. It looks complicated at first, but after having Tin Man help me install one it's pretty simple- not much more than installing any other line release. As with any line release, the placement of the line tab is the critical part. Tin Man did the design of the tab and it's placement in Autocad, but if I were doing it without his help I would build a little mock up (shown in the pics) and fit the shape and location of the tab that way.

Here's an "exploded" view of the components, followed by a view showing them assembled. Note the tiny hole (.040" I think) in the tab next to the bigger hole. If you look close you can also see the slot (.030 wide and .030 deep in the thick part of the sleeve. That little slot is also what you use to turn the torsional spring and put preload on the spring.

The next two pics show the trigger mech in the cocked, then in the uncocked position. In the first pic you can see the sear which comes down and holds the line tab in the cocked position. When the gun is fired the sear swings up and allows the tab to move backward (inside the mech) while the other end moves forward to release the shooting line. All of this is just the manually resetting part. With Tin Man's device the torsional spring immediately swings the tab back to the cocked position and holds it there until the shaft is inserted and the sear drops down to hold it when the line is wrapped around the tab.

In the next post I'll show what the resetting device looks like in a the "mock up" blank.

I made this mock up when I was fitting up the original line release (before we decided to use Tin Man's) but it works well for showing how the release fits into the gun. The first shows the release in the cocked position, then in the forward position before it has reset itself.

The next two pics show how the sleeve can be rotated using the little slot and a sharp punch. Once the sleeve has been rotated into the desired position the screw is tightened enough to hold it in place. In this case I rotated it about 270 degrees from the relaxed position. This gave te tab a nice crisp snap back into place after being released, but it can be set accorting to the shooter's personal preference.

Tin Man has a drawing that shows all of the dimensions and will post later. Everything is generic except the overall length of the sleeve, which depends on the location of the line release slot for a particular mech, and the shape of the line tab, which is somewhat generic but will have to be fit up to a particular gun and trigger mech.

Bill

Quote from pargo

Thanks. I have a few more questions.

1. Must the system be installed from the top due to the direction the spring is coiled?
2. Is there a way to install from the bottom?
3. Why is the washer necessary?
4. Does the length of the sleeve have to match this particular trigger mech? I mean does the bottom end of the sleeve have to touch the bottom of the line release slot in the stock and the top be just flush with the top of the stock.

1 / 2. The release can certainly be installed from the bottom. As you pointed out, torsion springs work best if are turned in a direction that tightens them. So a bottom mounted release would work best with a spring that is wound in the opposite direction. Also, depending on the design, the handle might be in the way. Not true in all cases, but likely if using an Alexander or Aimrite, or anything else with a fairly large mounting flange.

3. The washer keeps the little stainless bushing from getthing forced down into the wood when the screw is tightened. The small end of the bushing is just a hair over 3/16" in diameter, and most of that is taken up by the screw through the middle, so it will easily pull itself too deep into the wood without a washer.

4. Yes and no. The bottom part (the 3/16" diameter part) of the sleeve is about 3/8" long because that works out to be the right length for this particular spring. It allows a little movement, but not enough to let the spring come loose from the line release lever. The top part of the sleeve (the 5/16" diameter part) can be any length you want. I like it flush, or just barely sticking up from the top surface of the gun, but the length is not important to the action of the release.

By the way, the little stainless bushing doesn't have to be stainless, and doesn't have to be a single piece. In my earlier prototypes, I made it from a standard stainless bushing, and a little round piece of plastic rod. The slot in the side can be cut with a hacksaw, or even better, a small modelling saw, in just a few strokes. It doesn't have to be perfect, as it will be hidden.

Here are a few pics from an early prototype. One advantage to a bottom mounted installation is that most of the common extension springs are wound in that direction, so you don't even need a torsion spring. The spring in the photo is a "left hand wind", which is what you need for a top install. For a bottom install, use a "right hand wind". To understand the difference, just imagine the spring coils as though you were screwing a nut onto a screw. If it would to on with the standard clockwise motion, then it's a right handed spring, just like right handed screw threads.

Dan - Yes, I think that it could certainly be made smaller, but the pieces would be harder to find "off the shelf". For example, #6 screws are easily available in many lengths, but #4 are hard to find long enough. Stainless bushings in 3/16" dimeter are cheap, and springs are easy to find to fit around 3/16" diameter bushings, etc. The dimensions that I typically use would most appropriately be considered "convenient", and not necessarily "optimal".

I have no doubt that it could be done if someone wanted to badly enough. I think that it would become a question of how hard you wanted to work to reduce the diameter by another 1/32", for example, and then how hard to reduce it still further. If that small change was the difference in whether it would fit your application or not, then of course it might be worth the trouble.

If you have something particular in mind, you know I'll help you out if I can.

Quote from pargo

The only flaw with this system is the diameter. I prefer slimmer stocks and don't think I have enough room to install that. Tin Man, can you dream up a solution for that? Is it possible to reduce the diameter of all the components?

After a little checking, I am "pretty sure" that I could reduce the max diameter from 5/16" down to 1/4".

Couldn't the sleeve your using now be reduced by 1/32" on each side and still use all the other same components? Or would this make the wall thickness too flimsy?