Diving deaths scuba vs. freediving

Dan, that's a very interesting question. I don't have any specific numbers for the two, but it seems that amongst spearfishing you hear about more free diver deaths, and not many of the scuba deaths I've read about have involved spearfishing. However, an important thing to keep in mind is the number of people that practice scuba vs. freediving spearfishing, and the frequency with which both groups are in the water. I'd think it would be a hard comparison to truly make at that point, as with scuba diving, generally making 1-3 dives in a day is pretty common, whereas with freediving, it seems more common to spend extended periods of time in the water, of course with greater up and down motion than scuba. You may find for instance that freediving spearfishing has more deaths than scuba spearfishing, but also has more practitioners, who tend to be in the water more frequently, and for longer periods of time. There's also a big difference between scuba diving with a speargun to 60 feet and doing bounce dives of 150'+, which doesn't seem particular uncommon on rigs around the gulf, although that may be a misconception of mine based on various things I've read. There's also a big difference (I would think) between relatively shallow and much deeper spearfishing while freediving. All in all, in my opinion, such a question doesn't really yield that useful of an answer, as there are so many variables to consider (# of deaths, # of practitioners, amount of time spent in the water, # of dives, frequency of trips, typically hunting alone or with one or more buddies, average amount of experience of divers spearfishing, etc). Without factoring in such details, a mere statistic of which has more deaths can't really be used to argue for or against the safety of one or the other (not that this is necessarily your goal).

Anyways, I'm curious about the answer as it is, and I'd love to see some more in depth analysis. I think I just felt like mentioning some other things to consider after seeing similar issues arise when people have tried to use similar statistics when arguing between open circuit and closed circuit scuba safety, and between the safety of different types of closed circuit rebreathers. For example, people would argue that mccrs are safer than eccrs with statistics saying that mccrs had less deaths associated with them, but ignoring the fact that there were FAR more eccrs in use at the time.

With that said, best of luck with the question, and if I happen to find any statistics, I'll let you all know.

Globally, I would think that more deaths occur while freediving just because scuba is not allowed in most countries while spearfishing. The U.S. is one of the few countries that still allows it.

Is actually DAN whos got the answer to that, with this I mean
Divers Alert Network.

I remember that when the diving computers came up, so did
the scuba accidents, I think that was in the 1985, and I guess
as computers got beter it went back to "safe" levels.

They were gathering data from breath holding accidents too,
so they should have some numbers by now.

http://diversalertnetwork.org/

We take this sport of ours too lightly, specially the younger
stronger guys, loosing someone close is a devastating experience.
No fish or depth record is worth a life, and it is so hard to make
someone understand the dangers.

Its even harder to get someone to stick to a buddy system plan,
since as soon as you are trying to make sure your partner is safe,
you will loose some fishing oportunities even in clear waters.

It would take some unselfish act to stay together, and that is seldom
seen, voluntary good deeds are hard to find, but is actually this kind
of spearfishing the only safety way to go.

Pure freedivers are more safety oriented since they dont go after
fish and stay put in place so they can watch each other up and down,
and this has saved many lifes, its been proven 100%, is not the black out
what kills you, is being alone when you get in trouble.

Terry has been working on his safety jacket, and it looks like a winner
for the ones who can afford it, hopefully in the long run it will be more afordable.

I would be interested in how many "close calls" go unreported. In freediving, many will suffer SWB or some other event and nobody ever knows about it. In SCUBA, some will surface bent and never see a doctor.
Nic

Freediving class:

They are all asqued why they are taking a
Freediving clinic, and their objectives and expectations.

"So, tell us why are you on this freediving class."

"Well, I wanted to be able to find my limits and
black out , I will push it until I black out, thats why
am here, I want to have a SWB."

Then the guy who came with him to the clinic
is asked the same question:

"So, tell us why are you on this freediving class."

"I came here to see him black out..."

Black out is nothing for Freedivers , while is almost
certain death for spearfishermen, the diference is
that we are alone in the water when we
push out limits.

Is not about counting how many black outs,
go to you tube or google it, I mean, samba,
black outs, everywere, no big deal.

Black outs in training means go back , you were
too deep, or held your breath too long, go back
and keep training, you are not ready and is dangerous.

They get disqualified at the mere sigh of disconfort
in tournaments, you better be in a strong and
healthy looking mood when you reach the surface or
start breathing , or you wont be allowed and be called a BO.

Roberto, thanks for taking the time to explain that interesting angle of the subject. Is hard to find a good diving buddy. I seldom get good fish, cause I am always in " bodyguard mode¨ My main concern while spearfishing is safety and to keep my diving team safe. Is sometimes dificult, but I kind of enjoy it.

Roberto,

I remember the PFI team was saying that.

Chasing those big groupers and muttons can easily cause a blackout if you are not careful.

dan this is a very interesting subjet and i learn from you guys all the time , even we dont get and response is always good cus we learn from every answer. keep it going guys and thank .

que viva la pesca :thumbsup2:

I spearfish both ways. And I am very safety conscious. I believe the risk of dying is significantly higher with freediving.

Here's my reasoning: scuba spearfisherman usually solo dive at some point and practice safety techniques accordingly. Computers and redundant air source are the two biggest. The deeper you go, risks are increased but mainly related to the bends. And most guys don't die from the bends. Out of air and entanglements are the two biggest risks of dying, followed by air embolism during a fast ascent. In Florida, there are a lot more scuba spearos than freedivers and fewer deaths reported.

Freedivers are not very safety conscious. SWB is the leading cause of death and is totally unpredictable. Once it happens, only your buddy can save you. We are bad about watching out partner correctly, we overweight too often, and we push our limits. SWB occurs more with younger more experienced freedivers.

Scuba deaths usually occur with older less experienced divers or risk takers.

Bottom line, freedive spearfishing is VERY dangerous. But the risk of death from swb can be nearly eliminated with truly diving with a good partner at all times.

I believe all the SWB statistics for the last few years can be found at Divewise.org

C

if you do both and you say that freediving is more dangerous i have 2 questions .
1- why you still do it ?
2-why are you here ? we love freedive spear and the use of a tank is out of my question , is just like going hunting ducks with a machine gun .

que viva la pesca :thumbsup2:

Quote from monster slayer

Roberto, thanks for taking the time to explain that interesting angle of the subject. Is hard to find a good diving buddy. I seldom get good fish, cause I am always in " bodyguard mode¨ My main concern while spearfishing is safety and to keep my diving team safe. Is sometimes dificult, but I kind of enjoy it.

Yes, you concentrate on your dive buddy and you really
cant get the full attention needed to get good fish,
at first is really demanding,specially when you care
for others and nobody cares about you.

Until you find (or teach) someone to be there for
you too, and then you will be "safe" and spear
with the same oportunity as someone alone
and with very high risk.

I dont know if spearing on scuba is safer,
I dont have the data, I will try to get it,
but Freediving is dangerous, and even more
if we spearfish on a breath hold,the more we
know, the better our chances to prevent mistakes.

Not too long ago, we did not even knew what
SWB was.

I have nothing against scuba spearfishing, after all
is not the fishing art form, is the caracter of the spearo
what will decide what he does with his spear.

All I know, is that I feel safer while spearfishing
on a breath hold, than driving to the diving spot
and driving back from it.

Tulocote,

Why do you question if a guy belongs on the forum or not? You just joined the other day and from what I gather from your first handful of posts, you havn't added any value as of yet. We have quite a few members of this forum that both scuba and freedive and they should be respected. I hope you change your attitude or you won't last too long here.

Que viva la Civilidad:thumbsup2:

Quote from tulocote

if you do both and you say that freediving is more dangerous i have 2 questions .
1- why you still do it ?
2-why are you here ? we love freedive spear and the use of a tank is out of my question , is just like going hunting ducks with a machine gun .

que viva la pesca :thumbsup2:

1- I live in Florida and was a scuba diver. I then was introduced to spearfishing and fell in love with it. Then I met a bunch of freedivers and started freedive spearfishing and I love it also. I accept the risks of both and try to be a safe as possible.

2- I am here because I love freedive spearfishing. I find it much more challenging and simpler. I am a relative beginner, but I'm learning fast. I usually dive with my brother, who is training to become a PFI instructor and is very safety conscious. I'm here to learn and meet new friends with a similar passion for this sport.

Charlie