Speargun with safety or without

I'll also put the safety on when hunting in the surf zone or around exposed reef where I might get rolled.

I cannot disagree with most of what others have written here, but as someone who has used a large variety of guns in terms of their propulsion type I can say that the safety is useful for when you are rigging the shooting line on the gun. At that time you don't have control from the rear end of the gun and hence less control over where the gun is pointing at any given moment. As others have said the gun could still shoot, but it is less likely as something usually has to break.

On older rear handle pneumatics wrapping the shooting line could pull on the line release which operated off the toe of the trigger and with a tight wrapping action the gun could shoot while you were doing it. However if you used the safety slide it blocked the trigger and nothing could happen to the trigger when you applied the line wraps. That is about the only time you needed the safety as the safety had no control over the sear lever inside the gun as the trigger pushed the sear lever over, it did not free the sear lever by unblocking the sear lever's action as it does in most band guns.

On an open muzzle gun you complete the line wraps as the shooting line holds the spear on the gun at the muzzle, so the bands are applied afterwards and hence you don't really need a safety, you are always at the back of the gun. On closed muzzle guns you can apply the bands first and then do the shooting line wraps, in which case the safety is a good precaution as you need to change your grip on the gun.

Otherwise you don't need a safety, but ideally a safety immobilizes the trigger and the sear lever such as that used in the Riffe Metaltech which slips in behind the sear box roof and blocks the rear of the locking lever against the rear transverse mechanism housing attachment screw. Note that is the true trigger or locking lever being blocked, not the remote trigger. Safeties that flick "on" and "off" without changing your grip on the gun are not such a good idea, the application should be a deliberate action and you are less likely to have left it "on" when you want it "off" if the safety is not a quick flick on and off switch, but is something that you do as part of gun preparation.

Ultimately you can discipline yourself to use any safety arrangement, but in the heat of the moment it is annoying when you feel the trigger not budge and the moment to use your thumb or trigger finger to poke the safety to "off" is all your intended victim needs to escape. However some guns had very poorly engineered safeties that could be either "on" or "off" regardless of their nominal position and while they possibly secured the trigger that did not necessarily block the sear lever as the mechanism could appear to be latched when it was not, so applying the safety did nothing. A well engineered safety should confirm that the mechanism is indeed latched, otherwise it will not apply and that in itself is a useful feature for a safety to have.

Once when skirting a fringing reef on a small island connected at low tide by a sand spit to shore I went out wide to the sandy edge and a freak wave caught me and started to surf me into shore before I knew what was happening. I put the safety to "on" and then while trying to stop my body surfing action managed to deband the gun, fortunately falling off the back of the rearing wave as I became less hydrodynamic as otherwise I would have been on a dumper with a charged up speargun dropped onto a sandy crescent shore. I was glad I had a safety on that gun, even though it never came down to the test!

There have been some good circumstances noted in this thread that make good cases for a safety. But I cannot bring myself to want a safety, under any circumstance. A safety is just not safe enough! These trigger block safeties are not much more than a trigger guard that moves. When I enter the water and load my gun, my mind knows it is time to concentrate and be in the best control that I am capable of. If I had a safety to resort to.... well, I think it might make me lazy and careless. I kind of enjoy being on edge while loaded up. It keeps me in control and responsible.

Pretty much sums it up for me

On a shotgun, I didn't mind the safety (Savage model...pump..) that was a thumb safety right where you would hold the gun with your trigger hand so you didn't have to move your hand to get to it.
The safety on the only speargun I had with one (Riffe) has to be set with your non trigger hand A real pain in the ass if you forgot to disengage it. I lost more than a couple fish that way. "oh shit., the safetly" !!! And by the time you get it off....bye bye fish.
That's why I took it off my C3X.

If the debate on safeties is ever going to be resolved then you have to look at the particular gun and its layout. Riffe speargun users can take control of the gun from the rear immediately the bands are cocked, so they can ignore the safety. Applying the safety is about making the gun less likely to shoot, but it is not an absolute guarantee of it not shooting. The safety is no excuse for ignoring the safe operation or handling of the cocked gun, that is the user's responsibility. Where the safety improves the odds is say if you pass a cocked gun to someone else, not for an immediate shot by them, but while you need your hands free and you require the gun under directional control by your buddy before you want it back. It is your responsibility to apply the safety before you hand the gun over, but that does not give him carte blanche to point the gun at you or anyone else afterwards.

The "Ocean Rhino" is an interesting gun as the safety lever requires a firm push to apply it and while situated close to your thumb it is not a quick action arrangement, so it does not invite a "will or won't I" switch it "on" or "off" now as you hunt. The idea is you insert the shaft, put the safety to "on" (the safety lever will not go right down to "safe" in the sector recessed into the grip unless the mechanism is fully latched), finish your gun preparations and then push the safety lever up to "fire". After that you can and should ignore the safety until the next reload cycle. If you want to remove the safety from use entirely then you can tighten up the lever screws so that the safety will not budge from the "fire" position as the safety movement friction is via "O" rings on the safety cam support shaft that get more compressed when you tighten these screws. The grip has twin big red safety levers on each side of the gun, so they are hard to miss and you can tell at a glance whether they are "on" or "off" (actually "fire" and "safe"), rather than sighting some obscure little button or slide activator. Being a later arrival on the mass production speargun scene has meant that the design has benefitted from what has gone before. I pulled the gun apart which was the best way to figure out how it worked.

Quote from popgun pete

However some guns had very poorly engineered safeties that could be either "on" or "off" regardless of their nominal position and while they possibly secured the trigger that did not necessarily block the sear lever as the mechanism could appear to be latched when it was not, so applying the safety did nothing.

A well engineered safety should confirm that the mechanism is indeed latched, otherwise it will not apply and that in itself is a useful feature for a safety to have.

Pete, you made some very good points. if one is holding a piece of junk and can't tell if the safety is on or off, I would getting rid of the safety, probably the hold gun.

I've seen the mech and safety of the JBL gun, sure did not think much of it. The safety was better than the trigger catch and spring design. oops.... I'm of track. :nono:

One point to make; gunpowder based firerarms and spear guns can all kill you, but the tension loads on a spear gun are sooo much higher, the energy stored in the bands or compressed air.

The energy in the powder is easy to control till you do the chemical reaction.

It really is an apples and oranges deal unless you are the one in front of the muzzle. Saying OHHH Shite.

If you have a well engineered safety that works correctly, is smooth, ergonomic, and all of that; use it when others are around, loading the gun, going thru surf, etc.

I like having a safety. why not, an option. I'm out in the Northern California coast and just me and hunting, What safety, never heard of it. its locked and loaded. Unless I’m stowing it on my float and going for an Abalone.

The other side of it. I got folks around, not just me. well the safety seemed to be a good idea at that moment for that dive.

When I'm off treking thru the woods with a black powder rifle or centerfire, and just me... safety is on. I think I might be close to something, safety is off or the hammer is pulled back so I'm ready to rock.

I don't touch off my primary trigger, so I just have the hair trigger on my Hawkins till I'm ready to kill. That trigger hair click has turned an EAR and got me a few nice shots over the years.

Had to try to muffle that click at times, putting behind my back. $$%^^$#@ Safety

But this is with me out with just me...

If my boy was with me, then the safety would be on, till needed.

Got a gun safety battle at home here. The Kid, 17 years old now wants to go to front sight next summer for the 4 day Hand Gun course.

All he wants to do is play with gun, knives, sticks, swords, girls, karate and video games. At least he's not doing drugs.

(I'm a revolver/lever action gun type BTW) He wants a Springfield XD 45, I want him to use my Browning High Power with typical thumb safety. The XD 45 moves towards the dialog we are having. Why I bring it up.

Do the 4 day tactical shoot and flip your safety off/on 2000 times, the XD sounds attractive. I want him to have safety on/off BURNED into his Brain like he has with a karate block and counter punch stuff. Paint the Fence, Wax on Wax Off.
Repeating the cycle over and over again so its a non issue. We continue to disagree on the XD, but hey If I loose I get to buy another gun. Still a win.

Perhaps I'm just to old fashion, I still remember if I did not handle a gun right and do what my Dad (Hard azz WW2 marine) required, then no guns. Go play with your sling shot.
Hell I was safety proficient before I even knew what a girl was. I just wanted guns and to watch Sea Hunt. At least my head was on straight.

Any safety engineered well or done like crap, doesn’t change the fact that the gun should be handled like it could go off at any moment. One can’t assume anything, if you are looking down the barrel then all bets are off.

On the positive side, there are not really too many accidents. At least ½ of those are Idiots, the others would be interesting to look at.

I read CAOSHA Accident reports all the times, as I design high voltage electrical controls and automation, I like to keep up with what is going out there, It is just amazing how stupid and careless people are. And a lot of them are dealing with more dangerous devices than a spear gun.

When I’m running a lathe or a Band saw or the skill saw, I think about cutting my hand off and focus that this is dangerous. Just my way to “Keep my mind right”. aka Cool Hand Luke

Here is a link of accidents, not much out there from what I found in cyberspace.

Speargun Accidents?

All of these tales and stories, reminds me of one important Safety rule, more important than any SAFETY.

DO NOT DIVE with IDIOTS.

Don't target Shoot/hunt with them either, Recalling a dive in the Dirt to get out of the way of a hot 1911 pointed my direction. (teenage lesson)

Some great great point ling. thanks for taking the time

Quote from LunkerBuster

Damn. That I scary Phil. Any pics of a fractured shaft?

you can see the color change where it was half broken at least the last time it was in the water but who knows how long the flaw was forming
phil

Phil, very nice photos, what is the specific shaft material?

Going to add to engineering round table coffee discussions. :crazy:

I have seen guys drop the tail end of the shafts on concret or boat deck when moving gear...a bad idea to guard against. :nono:
The 90 degree milled sear recess has two vector points to develop crack propagation when shocked/deformed.
Shafts with milled flats above the sear recess also reduce cross section in a highly stressed area.

Cheers, Don

Wow Phil. That is an intense pic

If a shaft falls off a gun with an open muzzle then the spear tail can lever against the sear box because that is the only thing holding it. During reloading is the time the shaft might be free to do this and the weight of the shaft will apply a strong leverage on the tail notch. Note the shaft fractured off from one side, then the last section parted giving that grey appearance due to the fine grain structure in the metal. A heavy shaft, it applies a lot of twisting load on the tail if it swings to one side. The damage may have been done earlier, then the tail snapped at a later time as the remaining metal could not take the tensile load.

I would guess that might be a tempering error after the grind or weld.

This is what a wrote in a thread I started in July of 2010:

I have hand milled mechanisms I fabricated in the 5 guns I use with the exception of the Omer Airbalete.
I have never had a mis-sear or a misfire except the second gun I built with a stock Under See mechanism which had a rivet deform under the power of 4 5/8 bands 30 years ago. ( converted to my first mechanism very fast)

All my guns are cocked and un-cocked with the safety's on and I have never lost a fish because of it.
The safety on 3 of the guns is a silicon bronze cam which is rotated by a lever and prevents the trigger from un searing when engaged.

Double Trouble has a push button SS bar that locks out the trigger on the bottom shaft.The main top shaft
has it's trigger protected and locked by a 1911 type lever that is released when I wrap my finger around the handle. I have tested all my safetys and sears by hitting the butt of the gun while cocked underwater
with a hammer. My mechanisms are bench tested every 2 years with a 1000 lb pull and have a smooth release.
Thirty years and no issues to date. I have broken wishbones and had a Mean Green band break in the center
and that's about it.All my sears are 17/4 ph stainless.

I personally feel the safetys on my guns have helped make issues and misfires less likely and I'll take any edge I can get. If I ever blow a shot on a big one you have my word I'll post it here.

I still treat the tip of my gun like any firearm I might carry, I don't point it at any thing don't want to shoot.
I'm not trying to sell the safety idea, but when I have mine on and it is engaged I have never had a mis-sear or mis-fire while loading. Before I vent the bubbles from my suit and grab the handle the safety is off.
Cheers, Don