Spearfishing Rubber Latex Bands Facts & Myths

  • I did some extensive calling and research and here is what I conclude. I preface my following remarkes with the fact that I am not a scientist or engineer. Just an old retired guy who loves to spearfish. So this information is only my rational analysis of the information I gathered. Your opinions will vary.


    My conclusions are based on my research, conversations with Primeline Industries, knowledgeable authorities, and my own humble ignorant opinion.


    1. Basic Premise: Primeline makes the best and most consistent rubber tubing worldwide and is generally acknowledged as the leader in producing the best spear gun rubber available.


    Some of my finding is kind of sac religious and contrary to the accepted company line of our own community members and dealers. Resellers hawk differences to differentiate their product as unique and superior. In other word s there is a lot of sales hype going on in my opinion. It’s a business no harm in that.


    Myths and facts


    Establishment axiom #1
    Dealers tout the fact that they have fresh rubber as a selling point since they assert that it degenerates quickly.


    Primeline Industries Says “Rubber stored correctly out of sunlight with no exposure to ozone at a temp between 50 and 80 degrees has a shelf life of say 30 years. In fact according to the experts it become stronger over the course of a year as it continues to cure. At which point it is at its strongest. It then remains stable for decades if stored properly at a fairly constant strength.


    It is arguable that once a band is tied that pressure is stressing the band at the point of the ties. If that were the point when the degeneration clock starts ticking then bulk rubber untied would still be viable for years.


    Establishment axiom #2
    Dealers tout the fact that their rubber that has a thin black outer walls covering and an amber core as the best of both world because it prevents UV break down and still uses the unadulterated amber inside for purer rubber. Since amber has no dye the resin does not dilute it.



    Resin is added to the rubber compound to produce the color. Rubber made without any resin is somewhat amber. Since amber is translucent they can make adjustments during production to produce a slightly better and more consistent rubber tube. If it has resin mixed in it’s a one shot deal and no adjustments are made.


    According to Primeline Industries so little resin is added even in solid black tubing that the difference between it and pure amber is very marginal if in fact detectable. The force calculator doesn’t register a significance difference between color and non-colored latex tubing.


    I believe it could still be argued that amber was purer and therefore however slightly superior. As for the break down of the rubber by UV rays it happens slowly and there is no data to show a black outer wall or pure black latex tube is a deterrent in the speed of deterioration of rubber tubing. I understand this is a commonly held belief I am just saying there is no data to support. It.


    I understand that some divers advocate for storing their rubber bands in the freezer to prolong its life. Primeline experts suggest that actually storing it in the freezer could allow ice crystals to form inside it and actually do some possible harm. Better of in the refidigator if you subscribe to that belief system.


    Establishment axiom #3
    The most common ID in rubber latex tubes used in spear guns in the 1/8”. The ID is the inside diameter of the rubber tubing. (The little hole in the middle). In a typical 5/8” band the outside diameter would be 5/8” then the inside wall on the right side would be ¼”, the hole 1/8”, and the left side wall would be ¼” for a total of 5/8”. Some European are going to a 1/16” ID this makes the outer wall slightly thicker. The benefit suggested is two fold more rubber and a smaller inner hold to retain water. I plotted it out on the Primeline force calculator and it registers a 3% increase in power. About two pounds additional pull.


    This 1/16 ID is not widely available in the USA but is becoming more of a standard in Europe. It is more costly and requires a special run from Primeline with larger minimum quantity order then the standard regular 5/8” x 1/8” ID rubber.


    Is it worth it? Well I ordered some and have enough to make a set for my Wong 55” GR gun but no opinion since it untested. Still it is fun to experiment. However costly.


    What about Rob Allen bands, or the Blue colored ones from Mako? Or the red ones from hammerhead. Well I called Mako they said there is no in performance difference between its Primeline black tubing (Currently 5/8” x 1/8” $2.70 a foot) and its Primeline Blue colored latex bands. (Currently 5/8” x 1/8” $4.38 a foot) That is a difference of $1.68 a foot. Do you think a fish cares what color band you shot him with? (They were out of Black and offered to see me the blue for the same price)


    All bands made by Primeline use the exact same compound. It doesn’t matter what color resin they use. They may have different specs such as the thickness variance of the outer blue wall vs. the amber core wall size and the currently emerging ID 1/16 hole but in the end it is all the same materials just arranged in varying configurations and colors.


    The placebo effect is exploited because we believe if it costs a lot more it has to be superior and functionally much better. The resin added is almost negligibly and as a result technically the cheapest Primeline rubber you can find no matter how it is packaged will be the best you can get. A rose by any other name is still a rose.


    Many of you will be certain and just plain know for a fact that the rubber latex you are using is the best and better certainly the pure black. You experience and gut will just know it is. I ask that you step back and reflect no matter how successful you are with your current setup that maybe just maybe you are that good and could kill fish with a tire inner tube.


    Some companies buy in such large quantities they get a seriously low price on the rubber (5000 ft. at a time). and can sell it to you almost or ever cheaper than if you purchased directly from Primline. Primeline will sell directly to you but you need a minimum order of 100 feet and the price at that level of bulk order would be $2.54 cents a foot for 5/8” x 1/8” ID (Amber, Black/Amber, and pure black) same price. If you wanted to try the new 1/16” ID hole that is 5/8” x 1/16 you would need to order a minimum of 100 feet at a cost of 2.97 per foot.


    Well there you have what I discovered and love it or hate it I just sayin.

    When I am not sleeping, I'm Spearfishing.
    My Aeris 10 only records 99 dives.
    I use them all every day the China Sea will admit me.

  • Good write up. Read this after I JUST ordered the Speardiver small ID black rubber, so i'm pretty happy and excited to try it out. I guess i'm at the stage of diving where its fun to always try and tweak your gear to get to try and get a step up or improve the performance, but as you said, its fun but costly. But its what we love and i'm happy to experiment.

  • Curing is very important with wine and rubber.... I like the French for both.;)


    but Dan's is what I have been using the last couple years. I store all my rubber with the ends pointing North and South.;)


    Cheers, Don

    "Great mother ocean brought forth all life, it is my eternal home'' Don Berry from Blue Water Hunters.


    Spearfishing Store the freediving and spearfishing equipment specialists.

  • I religiously rig my gun with Speardiver small ID rubber. When I ran out of it recently, I felt such an aversion at the prospect of using the common 1/8 ID rubber, that I couldn't bring myself to do it. After that I thought.. if I won't use it on my gun, how can I feel good about offering even the economical Speardiver rail guns with it? Consequently I decided not to sell the conventional 1/8 ID rubber at all, not as bulk rubber for band making, and not with rigged spearguns. All Speardiver rubber in bulk and on spearguns is from now on small ID (1/16").



    BTW I was the first in the US, and probably the world, to offer small ID rubber tubing for spearguns. Some guys here will remember how it all started 5 years ago. In the spirit of that innovation, something new is in the works. I hope it happens and then I will tell you about it.


    As Justin said for some of us it's just about knowing that we're using the best possible. One shouldn't begrudge a vendor the price of his rubber. It's there conveniently available to you at the quantity/quality you feel you require, at a ridiculously small profit whether conventional configuration, small ID, or color branded. So much so that I wouldn't waste my time to haggle with someone over the phone about the price of blue versus black rubber.


    Lastly, we should all take a moment to be grateful for vulcanization, and these trees growing in some third world countries where labor is cheap enough for rubber to still be affordable for our purposes (although the price has gone up significantly and will keep going up). Without which our way of life would not be possible. Remember, even pneumatic spearguns have o-rings ;)


  • Cool write up. And yes Dan, praise Vulcan for all he has given us!!


    I was thinking the other day about ring stranded on an island. A buddy said to me, you'd be fine if you had you dive gear with you ( I am an avid camper and outdoorsman so my buddies know I am always down for a nature adventure)
    And I replied only for as long as my bands stayed healthy. Once they were gone I'd be foraging and gigging from the surface.


    It then sparked the conversation about how could you maximize the use of your bands if you were stranded? I ended up thinking you use them and bury them when not in use. Thoughts?


    Hahaha



    And yes, Dan did the small Id stuff at least five years ago and it is great rubber. So good in fact that when Dan was out of it I purchased imperfect and scrap pieces just to get another set of bands out of the batch. At that time we did not know if it would become available again

    i like to spear fish

  • Nickmal, nice write up, some good info for the most part. There is more to this story, unfortunately I have written it on paper note books over thirty years and I am a hard facts/data kind of guy. I will add to this discussion based on empirical knowledge when I can. There were guys that weren't content with off the shelf products going back the 60's, I have many samples well persevered. Just like with wine, there is no best.


    Cheers, Don

    "Great mother ocean brought forth all life, it is my eternal home'' Don Berry from Blue Water Hunters.


    Spearfishing Store the freediving and spearfishing equipment specialists.

    Edited once, last by Don Paul ().

  • Nickmal, nice write up, some good info for the most part. There is more to this story, unfortunately I have written it on paper note books over thirty years and I am a hard facts/data kind of guy. I will add to this discussion based on empirical knowledge when I can. There were guys that weren't content with off the shelf products going back the 60's, I have many samples well persevered.


    Cheers, Don


    Don


    Wow I sure would like to get a peek at that accumulated info. I was just sharing information I discovered while trying to choose a specific rubber for myself. You are way ahead of me sir.


    I did purchase some of the 1/16” ID rubber from Dan after my extensive search. He is one of the few if not the only dealer I know of who offers it. I like the idea of the slightly smaller ID for the extra rubber and the benefit of less space to get waterlogged.


    No one begrudges the Retailer for making a profit. I support his continued success and ability to remain viable so he can remain in a position to provide the valuable assistance and advise he gives so freely.


    Don I know some of you have learned and forgotten more about spearfishing that I will ever comprehend. However none of you love it more than I.

    When I am not sleeping, I'm Spearfishing.
    My Aeris 10 only records 99 dives.
    I use them all every day the China Sea will admit me.

  • Great thread!



    BTW I was the first in the US, and probably the world, to offer small ID rubber tubing for spearguns.


    In Europe those have been around for a while... I have some old bands (6 years +) i use to make spear tip plugs and those have the small ID (~1,5mm) these were from bands with threads tough...

  • I was up working on my boat till O-dark-thirty, so I will only add that my testing was very dangerous as it was based on dry firing a 3/8 test shaft into a ballistic medium which could be measured and logged.
    The the soak down for each specimen was 10min, 30min 1hr, 6hr, and 8hr. I no longer have my test bed
    which was made from 12''X 10' Lexon tube and fixtures for the target medium trap, when I moved I cut it up with a chain saw before I killed some one (me).:@ inside my concrete bunker.


    Cheers, Don

    "Great mother ocean brought forth all life, it is my eternal home'' Don Berry from Blue Water Hunters.


    Spearfishing Store the freediving and spearfishing equipment specialists.

  • I was up working on my boat till O-dark-thirty, so I will only add that my testing was very dangerous as it was based on dry firing a 3/8 test shaft into a ballistic medium which could be measured and logged.
    The the soak down for each specimen was 10min, 30min 1hr, 6hr, and 8hr. I no longer have my test bed
    which was made from 12''X 10' Lexon tube and fixtures for the target medium trap, when I moved I cut it up with a chain saw before I killed some one (me).:@ inside my concrete bunker.


    Cheers, Don


    HAHAHAHAAHHAAHHAHHAHAAHHAAHAH Don you are so 007 bro....hhahaahhahhaahahh

    A bad day at sea is better than a good day in the boatyard
    George Steele

  • I think with the conversation going on about bands that this needs a bump, best bands thread I have ever read, Chase have a read, the color pigment doesn't do shit.

    A bad day at sea is better than a good day in the boatyard
    George Steele

  • All I know about all this conversation is that tomorrow will be my first day out spearfishing in PANAMA! :thumbsup2::)
    I was getting crazy!


    You can't get what you already had :crazy:


    The weather globally has been pretty weird - Panama included. In a "normal" year it would be very dry with strong off shore trade winds bringing in upwelling from the Humbolt Current. This would mean cold murky nutrient rich water and lots of jewfish, Pargos, and groupers. This pattern used to start in late November until April or even May.


    Not this year.


    Reality is now warm clear water but lots of mid sized Pargos around (25-40 pounds) hanging out around 50-60 feet and lots of Bohala (AJ's) around as well.


    The fishery is just now recovering from the long lines - take conservancy - you could fill your boat but hopefully limit to what you can eat (trying to save for generations to come).

    Edited once, last by Oscar ().

  • Since we are having band questions I am again bumping the rubber bible for the new members to have a read

    A bad day at sea is better than a good day in the boatyard
    George Steele

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