Do short pneumatics have more power than an equivalent length band gun?

    I've seen this thrown around a few times. I'm not sure I believe it. I do have a tricked out Mares Cyrano 700. That's a 70cm gun which uses a 7mm shaft. I used to use a riffe of about the same length with one short 20mm band. I'd like to get rid of the mares and build a short band gun. That should make clear my preference.


    But to play it on the safe side, does anyone have a short wood band gun so we can do some penetration tests with a milk jug full of sand? I'll provide the pneumatic. If not it'll will have to wait till I build mine.

    Pargo
    I have used small pneumatics in the past. and i do beleive they can carry a little more power than a regular speargun same size with 3 bands. The only disadvantage was the noise. It sounded like an explosion and scared the living crap out of everything in a big radius. I have heard good things about the mares Cyrano gun. I've seen Big ones and lots of People like them speacially because they are accurate and powerfull. It looks like greekdiver should post here i guess he have more experience than lots of us combined:D. I dont like the sound. I have caught hogs in the same area without spooking the ones close by with a RIFFE but you know they dont do lots of noise. But i do remember killing one with a pneumatic, and God everything ran away from me in a sec:D. You can hear a pneumatic gun going of from the distance. But then again power and accuracy makes up for the noise.

    Interesting, Hope you can get the test going. I will like to know too. But like i say my own test was pneumatic won. But still didnt like it. But also that was about 8 years ago. The pneumatics have change a lot. so is going to be a good research, GOOD luck

    I'll be watching this with interest. I have no experience with pneumatics, but a lot of guys use them over here to hunt catfish in murky water, where the fish are generally hiding inside submerged logs or stumps. So they need power, but don't really care about range, accuracy, or noise. I always wondered how a short band gun would compare.

    i have a 24 inch gun you could use...let me know if/when you want to borrow it and I'll meet you up in your neck of the woods on some day I go up there to dive.

    i like to spear fish

    Compare overall length to overall length. I think a "75 cm" pneumatic is shorter than a "75cm" euro.



    In other words, I think a 90cm pneumatic is the same length as an 85cm euro. Or something or other.


    Davie explained that the pneumatic is able to push the spear over a longer distance (only stopping near the end of the muzzle), while a band gun only pushes the spear until the bands are in their normal position, maybe 8 inches from the muzzle.

    How will you do the test? There are many factors to consider.


    How much pressure will you put in the gun? If you pump it up to its max, you wont even have to run the test. You cannot achieve this by using a hand pump.


    Weight of shafts should be the same if you trying to compare penetrating power.

    A band gun only delivers force to the shaft for 60% of the travel. A pneumatic delivers force %100 of the travel. The force on a band gun goes from a max to to zero while a pneumatic gun goes from a lower max to about a bit less than half of the initial force.


    This pneumatic sounds alot like a roller gun. I Assume a band gun has double the initial force but a pneumatic delivers force 100% with the final force being about half of the initial force. My opinion is that the pneumatic will be more powerful by 20%.

    Davie Peguero

    Since the whole idea is about which short gun has more power I think the first factor to isolate would be overall gun size. The Cyrano 700 is exactly 70cm long from muzzle to the end of the barrel. It follows that the wood gun should also be 70cm long from muzzle to butt. In this case a chest loading gun is imperative although for testing purposes one with an extended butt for hip loading can built and then the butt discounted. I'm only saying this because if I build a gun it's going be one that I'll use, consequently I will only build a hip loader.


    The question of how much travel the piston has inside the barrel and the logistics of spear acceleration is irrelevant because we are specifically comparing power vs. size and the gun is already made and this can't be altered. It would also be irrelevant how much band stretch the wood gun will have and the mechanics of the bands pulling the shaft. What is relevant is that the wood gun have maximum band stretch possible for that size. This to me entails putting the band slot as close to the front of the muzzle as possible and making a shaft which in the loaded position will have the fin as close to the trigger mech housing as possible.


    Power considerations; Maximum power possible utilizing the variables of band diameter, length and number, without negatively affecting accuracy. Conversely the pneumatic should be pumped up to max power without affecting accuracy. Mamba or similar kit not allowed.


    Like I said the Cyrano is already here, all it may need is a few more pumps. Although I do keep it well charged just so that loading is not too difficult. What remains is building the gun. For testing purposes it can be made out of a 2 x4 really but I need a small gun anyways.


    Tin man, I'm thinking that 30" blank your dad has is perfect for this experiment. Since it's such a short gun I don't think that warping is a big issue. I'm going to head over to the wood store and if they have a piece of teak more or less the dimensions I want I'll buy that and make the gun out of a solid piece. If not I'll buy the blank if your dad still has it.

    Dan - I just got my half of the blank you are refering to, and it looks great. Remember that he built those two blanks (actually one longer blank, cut in half) based on my specs for a hybrid, so they are pretty stout at about 2-1/2" wide by 2-3/8" tall.

    I doubt that it would need aging, because his stocks never move much. It just seems a shame to waste so much. Maybe shoot him a PM and see if he has anything closer to your needed size?

    I thought it would be a waste too. I just got back from the wood store and picked up this piece of teak, it's pretty straight. It's longer and wider than what I needed but I can cut it down the middle and make two guns, the second one can be as long as a Riffe C2X. Cost me $40. For a long gun I would definitely go with a laminated stock.


    Quote from pargo

    I thought it would be a waste too. I just got back from the wood store and picked up this piece of teak, it's pretty straight. It's longer and wider than what I needed but I can cut it down the middle and make two guns, the second one can be as long as a Riffe C2X. Cost me $40. For a long gun I would definitely go with a laminated stock.



    That is real nice Pargo. 40$ and you can build 2. That could lead to some :cash:


    Also in the video. (My italian is rusted). Did the last 2 shots were from pneumatics, right? Because that shows a big ass difference there.

    They looked like pneumatics because on one of the shafts you could see the slider. My Italian is probably rustier than yours :) I think the comparison they were doing was between shaft diameters 6mm, 6.5mm, and 7mm and also band power vs. pneumatic. I don't think that test is relevant to what we're trying to find out here. If one were to go by the results of that test it could be concluded that pneumatics are more powerful overall. I put the vid there cause it's fun and to give someone who hasn't seen it before an idea of how such a test would be done.

    The version you gave me is translated in spanish.


    Also they probably only use single bands in that video.

    Davie Peguero

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