Weighing

    I had this conversation with Pantoja once and I seem to remember we agreed. While the conventional wisdom on weighing oneself correctly when diving deep is being neutral in 15ft? I tend to weigh myself such that I'm slightly negative at the surface. The idea is that I need the weight most to make the initial part of the descent smooth when I'm going after a fish. That is where I make the most use out of the weight. Of course this means that if I black out at 10ft right back down I go. But compared to the very small possibility that I'll black out the constant use of a smooth descent seems more important. I should play with it some more and see how hard it is to break the surface when you're slightly positive. I can't remember being positive on the surface since I started diving.

    last time out i was positive with 8lbs on the surafce with a 1.5mm suit.
    im sure i was also positive at 15 ft. i will be using this as, i can breath up better without having to move to stay afloat.


    the good thing about what your saying is that you will be seen on the surface facing down. but without someone to spot you youre as good as laying on the bottom. i think it is important to be neutral at what you say 15 ft, but more important have a buddy diving close by lets say for anything deeper than 65.


    when diving deeper i always make it a habit to stay close to another diver, and look around for them every once in a while.


    of course if someone is blacked out unconscious at the surface there is a good chance they will separated from the float and floatline as the gun will be dropped. so seeing a guy floating over here and his float and gun apart from him will mean trouble.

    Quote from av001

    i can breath up better without having to move to stay afloat.


    I agree 100%. it is much easier to relax if your not kicking to stay afloat. also at the shallow depths i dive it seems i can sneek up onto the fish allot easier too.

    Actually diving shallow is where you do need more weight. You're much more likely to scare the fish on descent so you need to make it as smooth as possible. Hard to do when you're buoyant. Also although others might say that a blackout can happen anywhere, I believe that for me there's zero risk of blackout diving 30ft. I'm always a few seconds away from the surface and I never hyperventilate during breath up to the point of not knowing when I'm dangerously low on air.

    Quote from Dan

    Actually diving shallow is where you do need more weight. You're much more likely to scare the fish on descent so you need to make it as smooth as possible. Hard to do when you're buoyant. Also although others might say that a blackout can happen anywhere, I believe that for me there's zero risk of blackout diving 30ft. I'm always a few seconds away from the surface and I never hyperventilate during breath up to the point of not knowing when I'm dangerously low on air.


    i agree with one fairly large exception. the possiblity to do something stupid is hightened in shallow diving. IMO, the lack of vertical blue above you will allow you to feel that you are safe fighting that bug for a few more seconds or thinking you can sprint extra hard to get off that shot. this results in a diver being signifcantly lower on O2 and still a dangerous 30 ft from air.


    the more experienced diver maintains a strong mental edge that keeps him/her from doing something stupid, but the rookie or worse, the guy who is better than a rookie but still pretty amateur, loses that edge and makes a bad decision.


    I agree the risk is reduced, but certainly not zero

    i like to spear fish

    Edited once, last by LunkerBuster: Horrible typist ().

    Quote from LunkerBuster

    i agree with one fairly large exception. the possiblity to do something stupid is hightened in shallow diving. IMO, the lack of vertical blue above you will allow you to feel that you are safe fighting that bug for a few more seconds or thinking you can sprint extra hard to get off that shot. this results in a diver being signifcantly lower on O2 and still a dangerous 30 ft from air.


    the more experienced diver maintains a strong mental edge that keeps him/her from doing something stupid, but the rookie or worse, the guy who is better than a rookie but still pretty amateur, loses that edge and makes a bad decision.


    I agree the risk is reduced, but certainly not zero



    Agreed. I'm pretty risk adverse, but have made a couple piss-poor decisions in shallow water that made me wonder later "WTF was I thinking?!!" :crazy:

    Well, I did say that for me it's zero risk. I don't know about experience it's all relative, what I know is how I feel. I know how much time I got from the moment I start to feel uncomfortable underwater, and there's a little more of a safety margin when the adrenaline kicks in. I never breath up to the point of being sleepy in 30ft, it's just not necessary. A risk that I will not take in any case is going into a cave, I'm very conscious of the possibility of getting stuck.

    i actually have a very simple story to share along the lines of what I was talking about.


    I was diving w/ jorge off of elliot key and there was a HAULING current. we were only in about 10 -15 FSW and i found a nice little hole up under a fan coral. I checked it out and it was about a 3 ft deep and around hole that was holding at least 10 bugs. I dropped on it the first time and stuck my head in to see if i saw any bugs that were much bigger than the others. I ran out of bottom time and sufaced. As i was breathing on the surface the current pulled me about 25 ft off the spot i saw the hole, so when i dove again i had to fight the current to get back to the spot (this was the first mistake, i should have fought the current from the surface and then dropped). By the time i made it back to the hole and got my head inside and grabbed a bug I had very little air and i had been upsidedown in the hole for at least 35 seconds so i was disoriented. I felt the burn so i grabbed the two bugs i had gotten out of the hole and turned to the side i thought was up. i was a little turned around and i was actually close to horizontal when i tried to fin up. the disorientation coupled with the lack of air, compunded by the inital sprint of fighting the current all added up to a big second of pure panic. I almost immediately figured out which way was up and i was on the surface a tenth of a second after that, but that moment of fear was the most intense feeling of uncertainty I have ever had.
    If i would have been in 30 ft it might have been a lot worse.


    this story is filled with rookie mistakes and bag circumstance, but to me, it highlights how one can not realize that one small risk at the end of a dive is really added to the entire rest of the dive. So my poor judgement on several small decisions (fight current underwater)(take two bugs on one dive rather than doing another dive) could have been dangerous. I know I would have been much more conservative in 35 fsw or even 25fsw


    for what it is worth...

    i like to spear fish

    i should add that on this dive i had left my weightbelt on my car at matheson hammock because i was running late and so i was unweighted. this helped a lot because i was catapulted to the surface as soon as the bouancy overcame the current.


    and i also am a much smarted diver now than i was then.

    i like to spear fish

    Recently I have been trying little weight. I use 2.5lbs with no suit and 6.25lb with a 3mm. I am diving deeper, longer, and more comfortably than I ever have before. 99% of my dives I have no urge to breathe on the way up so I know I could stay even longer if need be. I use to weigh my self neutral at 15-25ft but now I'm neutral at much deeper ?30-45ft?. I kick all the way down usually, unless I want to slow glide down, and to come up I kick 0-5 times depending how deep I am. I glide up without kicking the last 20ish ft.


    I believe it has to do with taking advantage of your finning technique. When you are overweighted you could care less how effectively you kick to get to depth so on the way up it is just as uneffective. SOmething which can hurt you in an emergency. When weighted lightly you learn to take advantage of the finning to help you and there is not much difference in resistance or speed to get you down. Also, knowing you can stop kicking on the way up from as deep as 30 ft really helps you relax and concentrate when you most need it.

    Davie Peguero

    Interesting Davie. I think I will slowly start reducing weight. For beach diving though if I'm anything but slightly negative I have to hold on to something to stay on the bottom, and this just doesn't work well.

    Shouldn't we define this "neutral" depth as a % of the total depth instead of an actual depth? Let's say around 35 percent of total depth, give or take 5%.

    What I have a problem with as far as weight calibration is the difference in buoyancy between when i'm holding air (inhale) and empty (exhale). Davie, on the surface when you exhale are you still floating?

    You must be AT LEAST able to breath in the suface totally relaxed. If you're not, you won't be freediving at your maximum potential.


    For me, the most important part of a dive is the preparation. If you cannot stay immobile in the surface relaxing totally while you are breathing, you bottom time and dept will be dramatically affected.


    If you are going to dive "deep", you don't want to be overweight for many reasons, but letting safety appart, also for the speed you have when you are reaching the bottom.

    Marco Melis

    A bad day fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work.

    Quote from pargo

    What I have a problem with as far as weight calibration is the difference in buoyancy between when i'm holding air (inhale) and empty (exhale). Davie, on the surface when you exhale are you still floating?


    There definately is a sinking point. Everyone sinks when they exhale at some point even if they have no weight on. The thing is how dominant/balanced it is over your breathing cycle. If it is too dominant then you are constantly finning to stay horizontal or increasing your flow rate when your lung volume is lower to stay afloat.

    Davie Peguero

    Let's talk the right way - however you choose to change it is up to you.


    Properly weighted depends alot on depth diving. Other variables include individual characterics and suit issues.


    Taking away varables and diving the third reef of Ft. Lauderdale 45-100 ft. A diver should be neutral at 25-30 ft. This gives a diver approximately 10 kicks before he can be motionless or this is the part I like best "freediving".


    Weighting yourself with the less amount of weight is always the safeist practice.


    If you think your safe at 30 ft, then your mistaken. Most divers will be over confident in this range and attempt repeated fast dives in this range. This is where I have witnessed many times sambas or near SWB.


    Spending 2-3 minutes at the surface is always recommended. Your heart rate will be at rest in 1 min. and you will think its time to go down again, resist this and spend necessary time recoverying on the surface.

    Thanks John.


    On the last dive I took some time to test how I'm weighted. I was wearing 1mm neoprene pants and a lycra top. I had six 1.25lb weights on my belt which totals 7.5lb. I'm fat right now, have quite a bit of blubber which I think adds buoyancy.


    On the surface holding my breath after an inhale I had to kick somewhat continuously to stay horizontal. If I'd stop kicking my legs go down first and I end up floating with just the top of my head breaching the surface. When I blow out %50 of the air in my lungs I start to sink.


    Holding my breath after an inhale at 10ft from the surface I sink. Yet it seems that I'm neutral at 40ft. I had to kick all the way to 45ft to start a perceivable glide.


    I really don't think there are hard rules when it comes to this. Considering that the moment you blow out your air the whole buoyancy issue becomes moot since you sink anyways. Overall I was feeling pretty good. Towards the end of the day though diving 60ft I started to feel the weight on the way up. I may try taking off one weight next time.


    How do you sink at 10' but are neutral at 40'?

    I don't know, it seems like I'm neutral at 40. At least when I extend my body horizontally, I haven't seen myself do this but it's a position my body adapts when I sort of will myself to hang at a particular depth and scan, it takes a long time before I start sinking perceptibly. When I said I would sink at 10' I was vertical in the water.

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