Bluewater No No's

    Something I've noticed is that most guys are pretty good with the smaller guns that they use all the time. Doesn't matter the brand or style with practice we learn how to shoot our guns well.


    I've had a few guys come out and try to shoot bluewater using guns that generally spend a lot of time in the closet - it doesn't always go well for them.


    Bluewater hunting is different in that we don't usually pull the trigger very many times in a day. It's funny when you think about it, we spend so much money, time, effort, etc. to get ourselves into the position to shoot a fish of a lifetime and we are taking a longer shot than normal while shooting a gun that we almost never swim with, much less shoot, that is totally different from the style of the gun that we shoot every day - logically it makes no sense, yet it is generally what most people do when the go bluewater hunting.


    I know a couple of guys who hunt well using totally different style guns, but they do a lot of both types of hunting and they know their guns VERY well.


    I think the "average" guy who doesn't shoot bluewater much would be much better served to keep the style of his gun the same when going from reef hunting to bluewater hunting. That and even if it means shooting chum with your bluewater cannon, DO IT, you must pull the trigger repeatedly to get a feel for how the gun shoots, what the trigger pull is like, how much recoil to expect, how to reload it quickly, how best to handle it in the water (the extra length and mass can affect your diving) - basically you should know the gun well enough that you don't have to think about it.

    This is true. To shoot an underwater cannon is quite an event, cause it takes a long hot minute to load it up, and the recoil and breakaway makes you think twice before pulling the trigger. I ´m really intrigued in how you aim those, cause it´s not just point and shoot, since the gun is braced with both hands and you have a pile of bands protruding at the butt of the gun and getting in the middlle of your sights. My experience with my light bluewater gun (Wong Ono) has been frustrating. I blame myself, cause a lot of fellow spearfishermen seem to love theirs. I just don´t get the shaft to the target. I have a similar gun that could be hardly considered as a B.W. gun that is a standard 4 from Riffe and the gun is a track driver. I had shoot it with even 3/58´s and that gun hits mark every time. I feel so confident with that gun, that I really consider it as an instrument of death. I know that no fish is safe when that stick is loaded :D One of my buddies has a Standard 5 and he even shoots it one handed, the only mod that guns have is a cassette of lead stuffed in the handle and that´s it. Most friends use 130 / 140 railguns in blue water with great success too. Those are just rigged with two 16 mm bands and the game they get is around the 60 pound mark and up.(hitting center mass all the time) So I had came up with the conclusion that , a huge gun with 4 + bands is just a matter of preference and not necessariy mandatory for B.W. I would love to have a huge 6+ bands beauty though.;)

    I'm a Speardiver, not a freediver

    Monster, If you forget about brands and look at the differences between the guns that you mentioned, it make sense why you prefer the #4. It is basically the same as the smaller gun that you are very comfortable shooting. You say it is point and shoot - that is true for you since you are "trained" to shoot that gun. For the next guy, who shoots railguns or mid handle guns, your beloved #4 might be a piece of crap that he can't hit a barn with. My point is that it's not the guns, it is us. If you want to give your Ono another try, I would suggest rigging it with an extra long shaft so that the overhang is like your Riffe (this can be a big part of how you aim), and use the same tip that you use on your #4. My guess is that by minimizing differences you can make the guns "shoot" more like each other. In fact what you are really doing is making it so that they "aim" more like each other.


    With this in mind, I am thinking about making a series of guns for myself that are basically identical except for scale, starting with a small dirty water gun all the way to a large tuna gun - should be fun.

    Quote from griswold

    With this in mind, I am thinking about making a series of guns for myself that are basically identical except for scale, starting with a small dirty water gun all the way to a large tuna gun - should be fun.


    I like this idea a lot. I know you really liked your most recent large gun. Were you thinking of scaling that down, or doing something altogether different?


    If my current hybrid works out, maybe I could use my extra CF tube for a shorter version as well? I think it would be interesting to discuss which aspects of the gun range would need to be held constant, and which are the best to vary with scale. Maybe that belongs in its own thread to avoid derailing this one.

    Quote from griswold

    Monster, If you forget about brands and look at the differences between the guns that you mentioned, it make sense why you prefer the #4. It is basically the same as the smaller gun that you are very comfortable shooting. You say it is point and shoot - that is true for you since you are "trained" to shoot that gun. For the next guy, who shoots railguns or mid handle guns, your beloved #4 might be a piece of crap that he can't hit a barn with. My point is that it's not the guns, it is us. If you want to give your Ono another try, I would suggest rigging it with an extra long shaft so that the overhang is like your Riffe (this can be a big part of how you aim), and use the same tip that you use on your #4. My guess is that by minimizing differences you can make the guns "shoot" more like each other. In fact what you are really doing is making it so that they "aim" more like each other.


    With this in mind, I am thinking about making a series of guns for myself that are basically identical except for scale, starting with a small dirty water gun all the way to a large tuna gun - should be fun.


    You are totally right. The shaft overhang on the Ono gun is hardly 3 or 4 inches without tip. I had just measured the # 4 and it has almost 15" . That ´s probably the issue. I reiterate, that I do not blame the gun, cause it is straight, has enough mass and is enclosed tracked. So I don´t honestly think right now, that the gun has to do nothing with my poor performance with it. Other guns that i previously owned lacked mass to deal with certain amount of power, and thas a new whole story. I would really like to improve my B.W. proficency, and those thoughts of you are great advice.

    I'm a Speardiver, not a freediver

    I think this is a good a place as any to discuss it.


    Yes, I plan to make some smaller versions of my new 68" tuna gun. I'm thinking about keeping the ratio of thick stock to thin barrel about the same (2/3 thick and 1/3 barrel). I really like the shape being wider than tall and angled at the top so that the bands don't pile up. I think keeping the distance between the handle and butt of the gun constant is important for keeping the "feel" of the guns the same.

    I agree with Mister Griswold. So many people go from shooting rear-handle light euro guns... then enter bluewater with a 6-band mid-handle gun. Completely different aiming/handling/shooting... just a whole new beast.


    I've spent years testing & playing with lots of spearguns, but when it comes down to it... I'm moving to a select range of guns that I can pick up and be familiar with. (i.e. for wooden euros, I have 90cm, 110cm, 130cm seasniper euros - all rear-handle, 2 bands, 9/32 shaft) It's nice to pick up a gun and know it will shoot where you want it to, then be able to pick up another size of the same gun and not miss a beat. Confidence in your equipment is very important.

    Quote from fuzz

    I agree with Mister Griswold. So many people go from shooting rear-handle light euro guns... then enter bluewater with a 6-band mid-handle gun. Completely different aiming/handling/shooting... just a whole new beast.


    I've spent years testing & playing with lots of spearguns, but when it comes down to it... I'm moving to a select range of guns that I can pick up and be familiar with. (i.e. for wooden euros, I have 90cm, 110cm, 130cm seasniper euros - all rear-handle, 2 bands, 9/32 shaft) It's nice to pick up a gun and know it will shoot where you want it to, then be able to pick up another size of the same gun and not miss a beat. Confidence in your equipment is very important.


    this is the best comment in this thread....while familarity is key, I have to say, that the familirity is knowing where the shot will go when fired, the confidence comes earlier when deciding to shoot.


    to me the biggest thing is knowing yes or no, i can get this shot....actually making the shot is second

    i like to spear fish

    Quote from fuzz

    I've spent years testing & playing with lots of spearguns, but when it comes down to it... I'm moving to a select range of guns that I can pick up and be familiar with. (i.e. for wooden euros, I have 90cm, 110cm, 130cm seasniper euros - all rear-handle, 2 bands, 9/32 shaft) It's nice to pick up a gun and know it will shoot where you want it to, then be able to pick up another size of the same gun and not miss a beat. Confidence in your equipment is very important.


    I couldn't agree more! I finally found a gun with all the features and specifications that suit my needs,wants, etc...Now my plan is to simply duplicate the gun in various lengths.


    Chad nailed it about handle placement. I would go even further to say that the handle itself is more critical. Having the same "feel" everytime one grabs a gun is going to be key in developing the muscle memory that leads to instinctive shooting.

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