mako and rabitech likeness

Those are the same, it`s a long story but, they are pretty much the same:)

.

Quote from EEZErik

A message from Rabitech re: Mako & Daniel Hu

It is with great regret that we noticed Rabitech's Stealth and Apex grips and muzzles have been replicated by another brand. These components have been designed and modified over the years by Rabitech in conjunction with the manufacturer directly. Rabitech is proud of what it has achieved as a brand over the years, with over 10 world records and with the aim of supplying superior quality products to the spearfishing industry at affordable prices. Something we believe we have achieved in 10 years of servicing the industry. We were manufacturing and distributing Rabitech under the rights exclusive to Rabitech.

What has transpired is out of our control and in my opinion a breach of business ethics. We are flattered that our gear including guns, Spierre Fins, and so on have been requested by Mako to be replicated under their brand name, and in this economy one of our designers Daniel Hu has been suffering trying to get all the business he can, approaching distributors of Rabitech product to carry the same line, rebranded (including us -Sumora/Rabitech USA).

We politely declined because more than simply price, Rabitech has always been 150% on service. Whereas in 2004 when I joined Sumora the guns had a 1 year manufacturer's warranty, we increased to 3 years, and even parts that were admittedly handled negligently by customers were replaced beyond the 1 and/or 3 year period. Because of the excellent service, friendship, and dive partnership formed, we could not undercut the brand that helped us grow and in which we grew together.

In addition, much of our text was stolen/plagiarized from our website and copy pasted verbatim as some people on this board have made me aware of. Our website is copyrighted.

That said, maybe my opinion in the face of the business world where free markets and profitability is the norm, is also naive. What this holds for Rabitech in the international arena remains uncertain. What we can promise is that Rabitech will not disappear. We are still passionate about our products, the industry, and above all spearfishing. What we can also say with certainty is that Rabitech has always strived towards ultimately satisfying customers needs, at all times. Competition is unavoidable, and the mere fact that the same components are being used means the competitor has faith in Rabitech's research and design, which in itelf is a compliment to Rabitech.

For Sumora USA: We still hold our 3 year warranty versus a 1 year warranty and service any gun. Even before when Rabitech was sold through Florida Freedivers, we have serviced these guns as well...even if some of them were simple trigger jams due to sand in the mechanism from 2003.

We are proud to note Spierre declined such offer for their fins to be rebranded and Sumora still holds exclusive rights to this distribution in North America. 5x National Champion Jaco Blignaut and 2x World Record Holder Trevor Hutton endorse without sponsorship.

Our Tommy Botha Line including Tommy Float and Tommy Tuna Guns are ours, and a new ballasted design coming in a few months.

Our Sumora Spears for Euro & American Mechanisms are still manufactured solely for us in our SA Factory.

On a personal note, I wish Mako and Mr. Daniel Hu all the best in the future for not only the USA market but any other market it chooses to enter. Thanks to feedback from our spearos we have discontinued the Stealth and Apex line and have a new model coming shortly 2009. (On the plus side, I've been pushing Rabitech to carry more models so maybe we'll get what we've been waiting for sooner than expected!)

Regards,

Louis Hattingh, Tim Theunissen/Rabitech CC
Erik Sun, Sumora USA

Display More

As with most things, there are 2 sides to the story.
_________________________________________________________________________________

Misconceptions about MAKO guns.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Guys and Gals,

As I take orders and speak with many of you on the telephone, it has come to my attention that a few people still have a misunderstanding about the source of our guns. The idea that our guns are simply “copies of Rabitech guns” which are being made in China IS NOT TRUE.

A recent post on Spearboard stated that we copied the Rabitech grips and produced them in China. This is not true!

I am sure it was an innocent mistake.
I am sure no harm was meant.
None the less, it is not true!

Again, I am sure that this has been an innocent mistake, but it is important that from this point forward, that we clear up any misconception in that regard.

As has been explained on our website and in prior posts, the facts are as follows:

MAKO railguns are NOT made in China.

Rabitech railguns are NOT made in China.

The railguns were designed and developed by engineer, Mr. Daniel Hu.

Mr. Daniel Hu then showed the railguns to Rabitech in SA. For obvious reasons, Rabitech liked what they saw and Daniel issued a license to Rabitech to sell his high quality railguns in South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

Mr. Daniel Hu then issued a license to MAKO Spearguns, to sell these same high quality railguns in the USA.

With the exception of our closed muzzles, the only modifications Daniel made to these railguns were the Rabitech and MAKO logos which were added to the grips.

All MAKO and Rabitech railguns are produced and will continue to be produced at the same factory that has produced the guns since their entry into the market.

The relationship between MAKO Spearguns, Rabitech and the original manufacturer is very beneficial for all parties. Increased production has lowered manufacturing costs, resulting in the same high quality products at very affordable prices.
In closing, I wish to thank you for your time in allowing me to correct this innocent mistake.

We will continue to do everything in our power to demonstrate our commitment to our customers by providing the very best customer service.

Please take a moment to join our email list. We will soon be announcing the availability of the new grip for our Iconic Pro Railguns.

Dive safe,
Dano

I hate to dig up an old thread, but it's something that has bugged me since Mako came on the scene.

Did the manufacturer (Hu) actually have the right to issue the licenses that he did? I find it difficult to believe that a company in Taiwan (which as far as I know has no spearfishing due to heavily polluted water) designed the grips. It seems more likely that they got their hands on the mold through manufacturing contracts with Rabitech, and then got creative when looking for further sources of income. The basic handle shape has been around for a long time (Sporasub viper, etc), unclear as to whether Rabitech had the actual patent rights, if they even apply at all when the economy is so globalized. Rabitech did make substantial changes to it, though, and the mako handles are obviously off the same mold.

Since then, of course, they've branched out and enlisted help from fine folks like Griswold, Tin Man, etc, in developing some new ideas, such as the enclosed track pipe gun. But I still find it unlikely that the Rabitech folks would get upset over nothing. As such, I still have ethical reservations in ordering from Mako.

Not bringing this up on SB, obviously, with all the money that Mako brings to that site I don't think the post would last very long.

You raise some valid points. I haven't used the whole range of Rabitech and Mako spearguns, but I used this one which is the predator pro and the handle is crap. Looks and feels like something that came out of a bubble gum machine. The grip is too bulky and the loading pad doesn't allow gripping the handle properly as it pushes the wrist down.

very interesting...I have always felt that capitolism is a real backstabbers game...not that I am against it, but if there is a buck to made you will find three people willing to steal it from the guy who earned it.

I assume, possibly incorrectly, that if there was something illegal happeneing, it would have been settled in court, if it is something unethical, that is a tough position to be in...many would argue that there is no ethics in a free market.....tough to swallow as a guy who believes in fairness, but likely true.

as for my personal experience. Dano is a really nice guy who seems to care deeply about making his customers happy as possible. I respect that. I make not comments about his gear, I am generally inexperienced with most of it, but to me, it is irrelevant if I "like" it or not....my opinion does not legitimize the gear, nor does someone else's....the apparent care for the customer does speak loudly and I recognize it as a rare thing is today's market place.

I am curious, maybe as a separate thread....how do you all let your feelings about business ethics dictate your purchases? taco bell and the tomoatoes from a few years back? any thoughts or feelings?

i know I try to support the people I like, they make it easier when they have the best gear and prices *cough* Dan *cough cough*

Thanks for the endorsement Judah.

My experience has been that price and quality outweigh any other consideration by far. Being a good person but selling sub par gear doesn't cut it. Mako are not even freedivers and don't have a clue about our needs until someone else tells them. Remember this breakthrough piece of gear? http://spearfishing.world/spea…speargun-wrist-strap.html

Since everything in this situation deals with transactions across international, ASIAN borders, I doubt there was any chance of resolving this legally. There was a situation several years ago where a Taiwanese company made some knockoff iPod shuffles for the Asian market. That's a BIG DEAL with much larger companies involved, and even Apple couldn't stop them. Even the Rabitech and Sumora guys shrugged this whole thing off as an unfortunate case of "wild wild east" economics that they could do nothing about.

I have no doubt that the Mako mafia does its best to provide good customer service and constantly brag about it online, but what happens behind the scenes seems to be a bit more ruthless and murky. Most of the time we, as customers,generally tend not to care though because this sort of Machiavellian capitalism tends to bring us lower prices. But many spearfishing companies are pretty small, and rely on close friendships, and man-to-man business deals to get things done, so when a bigger company with money throws its weight around its inevitable that somebody's allies and buddies will get stepped on and become casualties of progress. Best example of this is the US Rabitech distributor, who were a few really, really nice guys operating out of a warehouse in Orange County, who themselves had good customer service and a wide range of good products (the apex 3000 handles, which are now marketed as Oceanic Pro by mako, carbon fiber barrels, composite fins, etc). They are now SOL and trying to reorganize their business. Another example would be a friend of mine who tried to work with Mako as a supplier, and got very rudely lowballed on the prices (to the point that it was insulting of his merchandise), all so that Dano could just turn around and sell the stuff at a markup.

Nobody try to construe this as me being a communist or socialist. Business is business...but respect is also respect.

Mako spearguns and most of the other gear is cheap Chinese crap. %75 of their products including; wetsuits, rashguards, socks, gloves, masks, snorkels, knives, floats, come from the Chinese distributor who will sell the same stuff to anybody. The fact that Mako is deep in bed with spearboard and the grogan just tops it all off.

Quote from Dan

Mako spearguns and most of the other gear is cheap Chinese crap. %75 of their products including; wetsuits, rashguards, socks, gloves, masks, snorkels, knives, floats, come from the Chinese distributor who will sell the same stuff to anybody. The fact that Mako is deep in bed with spearboard and the grogan just tops it all off.

This is unrelated to my concerns of unethical business, but I find it rather amusing that Mako went out of their way to defend their gear as not being Chinese, pointing out that it was Taiwanese-manufactured.:crazy:

Well, depending on who you ask, Taiwan IS part of China The Chinese, for example. But that's a political issue.

Quote from Dan

Mako spearguns and most of the other gear is cheap Chinese crap. %75 of their products including; wetsuits, rashguards, socks, gloves, masks, snorkels, knives, floats, come from the Chinese distributor who will sell the same stuff to anybody. The fact that Mako is deep in bed with spearboard and the grogan just tops it all off.

LMAO. I almost bought from Mako.

i have bought a rashguard, rubber, dyneema, mako 120cm railgun, and a few other things i cannot remember right now. Ordering from them was very easy, good priced, and the shipping was fast. I do not have any complaints about them from my experience.

Alex, do you know what the whole backstory is? Just wondering what information you are basing your analysis/rants on. I understand the theme of your diatribe, but the details... are a bit different than what I've heard directly from both Erik & Dano.

As for the gear, some of what Mako offers is cheap crap... some items represent a good value... and some of the new stuff is just plain cool. My dealings with Mako consist primarily of a charity auction I won for fellow (late) diver Sean Stodelle. They donated the entire proceeds to his family on behalf of his battle with cancer, which I thought was a great gesture. At the time, I wanted an inflatable float that they were in the process of redesigning and Dano went out of his way to send me one when they received their first shipment months later. From my personal dealings with them, I've been impressed.

As for Rabitech US - I've known Erik for years since he first bought a Rabitech speargun. Good buddy & a constant source of comic relief. I truly feel bad the way he got screwed in the situation, but it wasn't within his control. He's at the mercy of a big company... and that company isn't Mako. Rabitech didn't protect their US distributor and the layers of distributorship make price competition for Sumora impossible. Because of my friendship with Erik, it'd be nice to have a compelling tangible(not emotional) reason to not like Mako... but I have no reason to jump on the anti-mako bandwagon.

fuzz, which item is a good value? Which is plain cool? I'm assuming if you say so it's because you've seen/used it.

Greek, did the 120cm Mako gun replace your Abellan?

Fuzz-

If you read carefully, you'll note that I started my "diatribe", as you call it, in the form of a question, NOT a direction assertion. Just saying that Mako's re-explanation of the situation involving Hu sounds extremely fishy, and that Rabitech's story about being screwed over by a far eastern factory rings with a bit more truth to it. No party seems willing to share the whole truth, but the fact that Mako is the LEAST willing to discuss it at length doesn't help their case. There's a sardonic paraphrase of the Miranda rights warning out there that goes along the lines of "You have the right to remain silent, but doing so may be construed as a sign of guilt".

I don't use either Rabitech or Mako spearguns, so I don't have a horse in this race other than a desire to find and share the truth. I wouldn't call it an "anti-mako bandwagon", I'll leave that to Dan. In all honesty, I have bought non-speargun items from them before. The hard float was what it is, and the band protector was absolute crap.

I was going to stay out of this one, but will add that my dealings with Erik and Louis have always been great. I, like Fuzz, feel that Erik is a great guy and I've even invited him over to shoot some Florida hogs as he's killing them out there in Cali. Louis from ZA was also a great person to do business with. I needed a gun quickly for a tournament, which Erik did not have in stock and he sent it from South Africa and even arranged for one of his buddies who was traveling on leisure to New York to bring it with him and I arranged UPS to pick up and saved me quite a bit on shipping, not to mention a great deal on the new gun.

I have bought a few things from Mako and found them very easy to deal with and nice people. Fortunately, for me, there is a new kid on the block, which happens to be local and I'll find myself getting alot of my stuff from him going forward. I'm also not totally averse to paying a bit more from someone I like assuming the products are the same.

My 2 cents.

Quote from fuzz

Alex, do you know what the whole backstory is? Just wondering what information you are basing your analysis/rants on. I understand the theme of your diatribe, but the details... are a bit different than what I've heard directly from both Erik & Dano.

Harold,
One can't help but be suspicious of a vendor that gets any unfavorable posts/reviews deleted on a forum that touts itself as a "free speech" forum. The same free speech that is damaging dive spots. It just seems weird.

Mike