Has anyone had success with removing the skin and flesh from a fish head to end up with a clean skull? A few years ago I tried leaving the head in water, the flesh came off but the bones separated, it was too much hassle to glue them together in the correct order. I'm thinking of boiling the head but I'm afraid the same thing will happen. Leaving the head for ants to clean leaves skin on.
Making a fish skull
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Never tried it but I have some carcasses buried deep in my yard if you ever want to dig them up and see. I doubt anything has eaten them but you never know, maybe you'll find those beetles that eat dead stuff.
Maybe gently simmer it until all meat is cooked then pick off all of the meat/skin/organs. Boil only enough to break down the flesh not the cartilage seems like the key.
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I think davie is correct..I have heard that you get off all the meat you can and then put the skull or skeleton in a pot and bring it to a boil (outside, it is supposed to stink) and then carefully pick it clean...if you cannot get everything, re-immerse it in boiling water for a few and then try again.
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On the other hand, If it was that easy everyone would have a fish head in their house.
I expect it to be very tedious and difficult if I ever do it. The difficulty of it is what gives value to the owner.
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pffft.. I'll go boil it now.
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The cuda head?
I'm looking forward to see what results you get.
I have always wanted to do the same. Just always seemed like to much work.How about soak in hydrogenperoxide?
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i would stay away from solvents and corrosive soaking because so much of the fish is actually cartilage and you dont want to take soup bones out and have them melt.
I wish you posted this yesterday cos I would have asked the guys from helter skeletons...they do some NICE work.
also, i have always loved this piece from fishskulls
i dont really smoke cigars but his makes me want to start...
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one more for awesomeness...notice the spear tip, nice touch
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It is boiling as we speak. It's eerie to have that huge mean looking head staring at me from a pot. In the even that it does come out good, is there such a thing as clear epoxy in spray form?
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Laquer?
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spray on hobbiest laquer....
..for model making and miniature scene making...both activities that produce really cool results and have very strange practitioners
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I feel stupid, I've already attempted to do this a few years ago and now forgot what I learned. But I'll leave this thread up so someone can save themselves the trouble in the future.
The boiling does the job quickly. The skin starts coming off immediately. The problem is that a lot of the flesh is now also cooked and ants will not eat it. So now you're committed to boiling everything off, and that's where the main problem comes in. The idea is to get rid of all flesh otherwise the thing will rot. But if you boil to the point of all the flesh coming off, so does whatever is holding the bones together. You're left with many pieces which will need to be glued together after being cleaned. There is no one main piece even if you stick to the bare minimum necessary to represent the skull well. Even the jaws are hinged along a center line and will require gluing. You'll need a lot of time and a good memory of that particular fish's anatomy. I just wanted a quick souvenir, not to invest hours and hours in such a thing. If you must have a fish skull I recommend you buy it. I have a hard time believing the skull people are selling actual skulls. There's just too much labor involved. I also got cut a few times from the Cuda teeth.
Just to take some value from the experience, it was interesting to see the quantity of meat in the head, I always throw away cuda heads, and marvel again at the cuda's double mouth. My dogs were eating fish as I was moving along. There's a disgusting mess outside now which I really don't look forward to cleaning tomorrow morning.
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I never tried it with fish...but with lobsters i just leave the shell outside and let the ants and time do the rest. I remember seeing a fish dead in the shore that was down to his bones. I guess pull as much meat out and let it sit in the sun and let nature do his thing. I guess the ants will get it right. Don't let it sit in the sun all the time cause it will toast the cartilage and will weaken and break. and don't expose it. or a cat or dog will get it. of course it will stink so finding a good place away is a must..
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cool, sounds like we need to build an ant farm out of soft sand with extra room for fish parts to be burried...simple solutiuon
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cool, sounds like we need to build an ant farm out of soft sand with extra room for fish parts to be burried...simple solutiuon
Or just start a Dermestid beetle colony... lot more efficient.
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To buy Dermestid beetles.
http://www.dermestidbeetlecolonies.com/
Some good info from http://cmsc.minotstateu.edu/museum/dermestidcolony.html
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Dermestid beetles belong to the family Dermestidae, also called carpet beetles or larder beetles. These beetles are commonly used by museums and taxidermists to prepare skeletal material. The CMSC has been operating a colony for the past five years, cleaning everything from a full emu skeleton, to brown bats, shrews, and everything else in between. the following are some hints and suggestions in order to keep a colony in operation.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][SIZE=+1]1) GET A GOOD HOUSING! You do not want any "escapees" out of your colony. Although they are harmless to you and I, they are extremely damaging to any type of dried animal material, such as taxidermy mounts and natural history collections. Insect collections are renowned for attracting dermestid infestation. If you have ever made an insect collection as a child, then slid it in a drawer or under your bed and came back to it a year later and found nothing but dust in the bottom, thank dermestids! They are a museum pest, and must be handled appropriately if you are in the vicinity of anything you do not want damaged. We have fabricated a container from 3/4 inch plexiglass salvaged from hockey rinks. the lid is especially designed to fit in a stairstep fashion with the box to eliminate any chance for exit. Crawling up the sides is eliminated due to the depth of the box and the slippery nature of the plexiglass, as long as its kept clean. I have never noticed a larvae or adult any higher than an inch up the side. when a specimen is complete all obvious beetles are shaken off and the specimen is immediately frozen to kill any hidden passengers.
[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][SIZE=+1]A ventilation hole is put directly in the middle of the lid and covered with mesh. Adult dermstids can fly, although I rarely see one flying in the colony, so it is important to keep an eye on your colony any time you have the lid off. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][SIZE=+1]It is possible to use other containers for colony housings. Aquariums are usually the first considered, but you need to have a good fitting lid fabricated out of Plexiglass, and the dermestids will, over long periods, damage silicon joints commonly used to hold glass together. My suggestion would be to find a non-working dorm fridge turned on its back or small chest freezer. Cut a vent hole in the door and screen it. You then have a container with a good sealing lid and a fairly slippery inside. If you want more information about, or cost of Plexiglass colony fabrication, contact me at hanley@minotstateu.edu[/SIZE][/FONT]
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2) keep the colony dry. If your colony gets too wet, little white mites will begin to appear, and will take over your colony. This has happened only once to our colony, and although the mites do not harm the dermestids themselves, they irritate the dermestids to the point that they will stop feeding. we now keep our colony very dry, and lightly mist any material in the colony perhaps once a day. [/SIZE][/FONT]
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3) You dont need anything in the colony except for cardboard! I have read alot of forum posts about providing cotton, or logs, or woodchips, or all manner of other "bedding" material. Throw all of that stuff away. cut corregated cardboard into pieces (4 inch by 4 inch approx) and throw them around in the bottom of the colony. Thats all they need! in the colony pictured here I put in maybe 20-25 pieces. The cardboard provides something for the larvae to burrow into to pupate, and also acts as a moisture absorbing material. When the cardboard starts looking raggy and floppy, take it out and put fresh pieces in. I clean out perhaps 80 percent of the frass from this colony twice a year. if the frass looks damp, your colony is heading for trouble.[/SIZE][/FONT]
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4) Dry your specimens! Dermestids do not feed well on rotting meat, and the colony can begin to stink very badly, so I have found it important to dry out any material that is being introduced into the colony. I skin the specimen, remove all large portions of meat, remove the eyes and brains from larger specimens as they will rot before the bugs can get to them, and then I put the specimen in a fume hood overnight to dry it to the consistancy of what I compare to soft bite beef jerky. I suspect you could do the same thing by putting it in front of a fan in a dry climate. After some experimenting you begin to get a feel for how the dermestids like it. I prefer to have them on the dry side, and if I notice the dermestids taking longer than expected, I'll begin lightly misting the specimen in the colony, perhaps once a day. Don't overdo it, a little mist goes a long way.[/SIZE][/FONT]
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5) Keep the colony warm. Dermestids, like most insects, are active in temperatures above 60 degrees F, and the colony works the best in temps around 70 to 80 degrees F. Dermestids will go through periods of slower activity, especially if you are bringing the colony indoors and outdoors with the seasons. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][SIZE=+1]6) Don't get discouraged! Once you get a good colony going it almost takes care of itself. It will take many months from acquiring your beetles until the time you can prepare larger specimens, so start small. Run something the size of jackrabbit skulls for the first couple of weeks. As your colony grows it will be able to complete larger specimens in reasonable time frames. I prepped an entire emu skeleton, piece by piece, in about a month, elk skulls in two or three weeks, small songbirds overnight! I usually have two or three small specimens along with something bigger going at the same time. Be aware that the success of the colony will run in cycles. Some weeks you will not be able to put specimens in fast enough, and other times it will slow down for no apparent reason. Be patient![/SIZE][/FONT]
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a friend of mine tried to prepare the skull of a 50pound barra last year. first he tried to remove as much meet and skin as possible with a knife. then boiling the skull, and after with a fine knife, brush and other fine tools working it again. the skull fall apart. i dont remember while or after cooking. but the thing was that the skull is been hold together by meet and skin. once you start removing that the skull will fall apart.
he cleaned all the bonesparts and finally glued back together the skull. looks pretty nice.
but hell of a puzzle-work. -
great info Dan...nice find
Tinu, do you have any pictures of the skull?
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Ok first I'm not a spearfisherman although id love to try. I am an avid hook and line fisherman and i joined the forum solely to chime in on this thread. If you're not up to setting up a dermestid beetle colony and al that l Ive found that just hanging a head by some stout monofilament high enough from the ground to keep raccoons and other scavengers away and just letting the flies/maggots have their way with it works pretty well. They tend to stick to the softer flesh and leave the connective cartilage alone (Just check on it fairly regularly because once there is nothing else left they will start eating it) so you end up with the skull still articulated. just strip off any remaining skin and wash and maybe lightly bleach the skull (too high a bleach concentration will actually eat away at the bone) then set it in the sun for the cartilage to dry out solid like you would with a shark jaw and you should get a pretty good result without an inordinate amount of effort
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nice,thanks for that input...
you should try spearing.....I used to be an avid life long hook and line fisherman too
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