defending the vandenburg

    [quote='Dan','http://spearfishing.world/forums/index.php?thread/&postID=34796#post34796']hmm.. a quick response after a two months absence. I wonder who our snitch is. Whoever you are please f**k off and don't come back.


    Ren, your video is not important enough for me to hate. What I do find annoying is the recent trend of posting these kitsch freediving videos in the forum.


    and another promotion :rolleyes1:


    Dan,
    Thanks for giving your opinions and out of the 16,000 views in 5 days I'm sure there is someone else out there with your exact thoughts. Kitsch as you may think that it is, it was fun, challenging, and rewarding to do. So with that said let me tell you what I really think......You can suck it!


    And on this promotion thing, you can suck it there too. I don't make crap for money teaching freediving. I do it because I enjoy the excitment I receive from my students after they break mental barriers. I do it because everyone that leaves the course is a safer freediver when they leave and I know that I have made a huge impact on their lives as well as their families lives because I have dramaticly reduced there chances of death due to breath hold diving.


    Wind must be blowing down there because Downer Dan has his panties all in a wade.........

    John, I think you were harsh on Rick on the snorkel thread. After all you're repeating information that you've heard, while guys like Rick and Red Tide have been diving for as along as I've been alive, and I think you and I are about the same age. Now I'm adamant about snorkel out for myself, but I wouldn't attack Rick over it. If you think about it, if you're diving within your safe limits, which you should be doing anyways, snorkel in is no longer a safety issue. Only when you're brainwashed into thinking that every dive must be done to your max, like competitive freedivers do :rolleyes1: that safety factors come into play. Even if you feel yourself approaching a danger point you can spit the snorkel out at any time as you're ascending. For me safety is a secondary factor when it comes to the snorkel in/out issue, as I don't want to put myself that close to the danger point in the first place. What remains is simply a matter of comfort while diving, and I can concede that someone else is more comfortable keeping the snorkel in their mouth, like sucking your thumb as Red Tide said.

    Quote from Searen

    And on this promotion thing, you can suck it there too. I don't make crap for money teaching freediving. I do it because I enjoy the excitment I receive from my students after they break mental barriers. I do it because everyone that leaves the course is a safer freediver when they leave and I know that I have made a huge impact on their lives as well as their families lives because I have dramaticly reduced there chances of death due to breath hold diving.

    Ren, since you don't contribute anything else here, be aware that there's no paid advertising in this forum. The only people who promote their product here are ones that I've given permission to, you're not one of them.

    the movie is well done,i just dont like that style of freediving movie.
    where the heck you people get the money and the equipment to do such things ?
    must have been a fortune on expenses to do that.
    tell you what, get me just two of that cams been used, keep the crew,scooter and other hightech stuff, and half of the production money. sure i will make it an original spearfishing movie worth watching without computeranimations.

    ooops, and seeing now what happen in this thread i would like to advise everyone once more not to loose their temper, and keep beeing respectful !

    My favorite part is the jump at the end with the pickup by the scooter! lol


    and yea Ren its been blowing like crazy down here for a week straight now... waters turned to mud and no ones diving lol!

    I don't feel I was that harsh on him, at least no more than the other people on several forums that Pippin actually started the thread then he answered for him then said he wasn't affiliated with him then copy pasted his exact answer to all the threads. There are alot of newcomers to spearfishing and although many still keep the snorkel in there mouth and do fine, from a teaching perspective the associated risks and problems that can occur are very real and I feel with that understanding it should be taught to be kept out...if a person after chooses to keep it in then so be it, but, the dangers and problems have been taught to them, and besides his excuses were not based on safety they were based on "all my friends do it so there" or "Terry Mass says this" which is not acceptable for people who may pay a good amount of money for a class and be taught that...my 2 cents. I was repeating info that I was taught by very professional and experienced people and also using my common sense which I have learned as well, but yes Red Tide and Rick have been diving for a long time just fine but Red Tide was not promoting this as a trainer either...it was actually Pippin who first started the thread then as usual never came back to answer a thing. I don't have any hard feelings for Rick, heck I dont know him and I am sure he is a good guy and maybe we have alot in common, but, again as a training safety instructor I felt I had to say more thats all, repsect to him none the less.

    Dan
    I tell you what I don't like and that is someone calling me a cheat and a lie and by your post Dan, that's what it sounds like you're calling me. First off I don't promote or sell anything I don't believe in. Nothing, and my promotions are obviously not for you. They are for young people, new to the sport, or older who are willing to open their minds to a less "old school" of thought. Have not once recommended one school over the other. How is this promoting anything but education if I don't offer a product? Get with the program Dan. Life is not just about you.

    Quote from O2 deprived

    Some friends made this. It's gotten a lot of hits. What do you guys think?


    I think we can all have our personal options on what is entertaining and what movies we like or dislike and walk out of. Dan gave his options and I gave mine as I was heading out the door, so the response was short. I'll have another look later.


    Cheers, Don

    "Great mother ocean brought forth all life, it is my eternal home'' Don Berry from Blue Water Hunters.


    Spearfishing Store the freediving and spearfishing equipment specialists.

    Okay, here's my 2 cents:
    First off, everyone needs to take a second and calm down.


    Searen: Take a second and look at where Dan's coming from. He's got this wonderful forum, that's a pretty small, close knit community fromw hat I can tell. In your 3 months of being here, you've posted 8 times, 3 of which were in this thread. Most of your posts have been about divers that have died. Thus, from Dan's perspective, perhaps you aren't contributing very much to the forum, and what you have contributed has seemed like advertising. He's not looking for advertisers, he's looking for people that can embrace the community and contribute regularly. Also, it may seem odd for him that after a somewhat lengthy absence, you instantly came back at a slight criticism. With that said, on my reading of Dan's post, he didn't imply that you were a lie or a cheat. He merely expressed a view that he's seen your time here as having little useful contribution, and too much advertising. Additionally, telling Dan he can Suck it, that he's got his panties in a wad, and that he needs to get with the program isn't going to help your case. Of course your promotions are things you believe in, it was never implied that it wasn't. That doesn't necessarily make it appropriate on the forum though, but I'm not one to decide things like that. Oh, and saying "I send this information so that you guys down in south Florida don't get yourselves killed" was a bit out of line in my opinion. It implies superiority, that you think you're better than them, and that you're saving them all from diving to their deaths by posting a couple stories. Useful information, yes, but that was a bit harsh of a way of phrasing it that changed it into a bit of a personal attack.,


    Dan: I realize where the issue lies for you with Ren's posting. However, looking through his old posts, while he does post about divers that have passed away, which I think can be valuable albeit somewhat morbid, I didn't see anything along the lines of "and so you should all take a PFI course so you don''t die) or anything of the sort. While he may support education, and he may have a preferred school, I've seen littel in his posts (before today particularly) that has been true advertising, though I admit, I think there was a video or two I didn't watch. While his sudden appearance in this thread may seem off, and how he heard of it is unknown, he was probably a bit shocked to visit a forum he hasn't said much on and hasn't posted on recently (who knows if he reads it regularly as a guest or something) and find himself being criticized. I realize that you want the best for your forum, and people that contribute little don't help much, and advertising doesn't either. His attitude, which in some of his posts sounds like people are in serious danger if they haven't taken a course, is arguably not without good intentions. If freediving is anything like some of the other potentially dangerous activities I've observed the commmunities of for longer, deaths within the community can hit pretty hard, and no one wants them to happen. Anyhting that might help prevent unnecessary loss of life in my opinion, is at least worth a glance, and if he feels the need to encourage people to find some source of education, is that so wrong? Yes, it would be great if he was a more active part of the forum, but just out of curiosity, out of the 273 members of the forum, how many of the contribute regularly? While I'm sure the percentage is much higher than on a larger forum, somehow I doubt that ren is the only person that isn't a major contributer.



    Well I hope I haven't offended anyone with that, it certainly wasn't meant to criticize either party involved. I was just trying to get people to take a step back and look at the situation from both sides before they continue to argue. Hopefully it helps a bit.

    I enjoyed the video, though I didn't watch it more than once. Personally, I don't have a problem with using fun, goofy stuff like this on the web to promote freediving training. Maybe some will go to PFI, some will go to FII, but having more people out there with the experience under their belt certainly won't do themselves - or the dive community - any harm. In terms of promotion, this is nothing like the aggressive, incessant spamming on SB by Mako and the numerous Mako trolls.


    Just my thoughts.

    Alex

    Sorry guys and gals for my responses to Dan. I saw personal, false attacks on my character that I should not have reacted to because we all know how things can become exaggerated from behind a computer. So with that said, I will try and contribute more to this forum in the future.
    Ren
    9102628501


    By the way, Snorkel Out. For safety reasons and not comfort.

    wow, even the disagreements on this forum are more mature and adult :D


    to add something..I am not sure who first said it, but they were probably a politician, "there is no such thing as bad press/publicity" I think there is a lot of truth in that but it is not a universal axiom...Spearfishing and freediving are linked but are sperate activities. Freediving has no real reputation except as a risky hobby while spearing has a very spotty reputation from 'bad press/ PR" stupid asshats breaking the rule (spearing Goliath groupers) and misconceptions about what we do in the first place.
    So, if we have a video like this, it takes some maturity on the part of the veiwer to say, 'this is fantasy and it is just a cool thing to watch', just like violent video games and glorified alcohol advertisements.
    I happen to find the video cool, mostly because 1) I love the vandy and 2) the logistics of getting the shots is fantastic and fun to think about.
    Dan has always said, and I agree, that freediving is something you do while you are doing something else, freedive photography, spearing...so this is freedive acting i guess :D


    I enjoy wasting my time watching crap on the internet... I love videos of cats riding rumba vacuums, but not everyone does. To me, this video is harmless fun, but I would not disagree with someone who said it could be portraying unsafe diving as glamourous or using what is a serious activity as a way of drumming up business for someone's school.


    we all have different ethos we subscribe to and we all dive for different reasons...the key is to be able to respect them and respectfully disagree and maybe know when to ignore something that just isn't worth the time to address


    dive safely friends

    i like to spear fish

    Freediving has no real reputation except as a risky hobby while spearing has a very spotty reputation from 'bad press/ PR" stupid asshats breaking the rule (spearing Goliath groupers) and misconceptions about what we do in the first place.
    So, if we have a video like this, it takes some maturity on the part of the veiwer to say, 'this is fantasy and it is just a cool thing to watch', just like violent video games and glorified alcohol advertisements. Quote: LunkerBuster.


    I respectfully disagree, even as a American I have been a fan and friend of many pure freedivers, this began when I met the late Jacque Mayol at the Miami Aquarium in the 60's. His calm nature and skills as a Freediver and spear fisherman set a standard I may never achieve, but I have had a life time of seeking.


    I have dove on several (deep for me) wrecks in the South Pacific with only a Speedo,fins, and a vahine in the outrigger just for the fun of it. Some times less is more, and the images will never leave your mind.:D


    Cheers, Don

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