Nassau grouper in world records


    I was looking for a pic of a speared Nassau grouper to represent the Caribbean section. It occurred to me because I know they're illegal to spear here and are indigenous to the Caribbean even carrying the name of a Bahamian capital city. I only speared one once in Cuba, a beautiful fish of 5 to 6lb. I remember well because it was the same day I got stung by man of war real bad, I thought of ditching the gun, float, and fish but pulled through.


    Anyways there are no speared pics to be found. So I thought naturally to look through the IUSC world records because there's bound to be one there http://iusarecords.com/world_record_list.php Guess what; they don't even list the Nassau grouper, and it doesn't go by another name. So my question is why don't they have a record for the Nassau? And if it's an oversight and legal to spear in some place in the world why doesn't someone take one and put themselves in the record books?

    I found this on spearbroad, post dated 05-11-2008.

    Quote

    Closure of Nassau Grouper Fishing Throughout The Bahamas


    The Department of Fisheries wishes to advise the public that the taking, landing, processing, selling and offering for sale of fresh Nassau Grouper will be prohibited from the first of December to the end of February throughout The Islands of The Bahamas.

    There appears to be a consensus so why no world record?

    Laws here are day to day depending on how much the officers drank the night before. At least that's the case on my side of the Island (Salinas). The enforcement agency is DRNA (Departamento de Recursos Naturales y Ambientales). They're a joke.


    I went there a couple of months ago to request literature on fishing regulations and they looked at each other and asked me where I was from....then they asked if I was a commercial fisherman...then they said they had no such thing.


    Thank God there's only a handful of fishing boats around the area, otherwise there would be no fish population.


    BTW, Manatee Zones here just means to look out for them while you skim the surface at 50+ miles an hour.

    I think it may be going downhill due to the legal gill-netting practices which takes a huge toll on the reef. The bluewater stuff is still out of this world though.

    I exchanged a couple of emails with Larry Carter of IUSA regarding why the Nassau grouper is not listed. Here's our exchange starting from the bottom with the last one an email from me on the top.


    The question of the Nassau grouper is being discussed in our forum. I wasn’t implying that you owe me an explanation, we were just curious. I in particular am not a record chaser, but if “Because we want to...” is the line of reasoning you apply when making spearfishing related decisions then I choose to believe the IUSA does not represent well my interests as a spearfisher and will make my views heard whenever possible.


    Dan


    From: Larry Carter [mailto:lspearo26@msn.com]
    Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 12:33 AM
    To: Dan
    Subject: Re: Nassau grouper


    A quick clarification??? Because we want to... [INDENT] ----- Original Message -----


    From: Dan
    To:     lspearo26@msn.com
    Sent:     Sunday, August 17, 2008 9:32 PM
    Subject:     RE: Nassau grouper


    Hello LC


    The Nassau grouper is perfectly legal to spear in the Bahamas. Why would you make it ineligible then?


    I'd appreciate a quick clarification.
    Thanks,
    Dan


    From: Larry Carter [mailto:lspearo26@msn.com]
    Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 12:20 AM
    To: Dan
    Subject: Re: Nassau grouper    [INDENT] Dan


    We don't have a Nassau because no one has ever
    submitted one. That said, it is a protected
    species in the US and some other parts of the
    Caribbean. We are putting it on our ineligible list.


    Thanks for reminding me..LC



    ----- Original Message -----


    From: Dan
    To:     lspearo26@msn.com
    Sent:     Sunday, August 17, 2008 9.04 AM
    Subject:     Nassau grouper


    Hello,


    Is there a particular reason why you don't have Nassau grouper in your records?


    Thanks,
    Dan
    [/INDENT][/INDENT]

    This morning I had this gem of an email waiting for me. Looks like Larry Carter is definitely spearbroad material.


    ------ Start of email.


    Jesus what a jerk!!!!!!!! I devote hundreds of hours to our sport...who are you?? what do you do for the sport??? I am up to my ears in bids for National Competitions , running probably the largest Spearfishing club in the world, and doing what I do for the IUSA which by the way is issuing World Records to about fifty divers a year who would otherwise not have them.....and I have some idiot tell me to give him a clarification now!!!!!!!!!!!! as towhy we wont accept his big time record for shooting a cow??? Are you fucking kidding me ??????

    Black Seabass are not illegal to shoot in Mexico, Goliath grouper are not illegal to shoot in Mexico...Do we accept them as records NO!! The Nassau Grouper is illegal to shoot in the MAJORITY of the world... Do we want to be known as encouraging divers to shoot these fish??? We don't accept them because we think its the responsible thing to do...especially with the conservation movement that is taking place today (in case your head is up your ass and you haven't noticed)...Australia, California, and number of other areas are under CONSTANT attack with closures or no take zones putting Spearfishing out of "business".... The reason being because idiots cant police themselves... people are outraged about dive meets (fish slaughter) some people are outraged with the shooting of the "cows" in the sea...grouper... Which the "good guys" (SCUBA people) hand feed and think of them as pets or family friends. I get constant letters from enraged people telling me about the nasty spearos who shot the pet local grouper "Freddy". If you cant figured it out yourself I cant help...Maybe it would help if you opened your eyes...
    Please introduce yourself if we ever come across each other... Any emails I see will be automatically erased...Thanks for your input and fucked up threats...

    Larry Carter
    President IUSA


    ------ End of email.


    IMO based on my exchange with its president this organization, the IUSC, is a BS organization. FYI such an organization is completely dependent on recognition by the people who choose to accept it as their governing body. In and of itself it has no official power. I'm familiar with this concept for years from my experiences in the dog world and organizations such as the AKC (American Kennel Club). In the dog world it's all about money, registration and other paperwork fees. I don't know how much money is in the spearfishing biz so I'm not implying these guys get rich off of it. But tactlessness is close to omnipotence so I think I understand the mentality of this individual. In any case I would never register a record with them in the future if it ever came up. I'd just as well start a new organization. IUSC stands for International Underwater Spearfishing Association. Being American based and putting a species that is legal to spear in another country on the ineligible list makes them hardly "International" IMO.


    In the end I really don't give a shit as I'm not after records but it was an interesting experience to find out about these guys. It's curious that on one hand they cry about closures and limitations on spearfishing while on the other hand they promote the same competitions and records that put spearfishing in the public eye and make it subject to criticism by people who otherwise wouldn't even be aware of it. Sounds like hypocrisy to me or at the least ignorance, very grogan like.

    It would seem to me that listing records for fish which are not legal to shoot in all areas is not that different from listing fish (like Red Snapper) which are not legal to shoot at all times (closed seasons). If you want to be listed as a recordholder, then you must hunt said fish in a location where it is legal, at a time when it is legal, and with a method which is legal. Part of the job of a recordkeeping body is precisely to make sure that those conditions were met.


    Are there other fish that are illegal to spear in the US, but legal eleswhere, which are listed? Snook comes to mind.


    Nice guy . . .

    Hey Dan I'm not going to say where or when. but i shot and landed one of this Nassau groupers by mistake :rolleyes1: it was in the 20+ # range a very while back over 10 years. I saw a ledge and inside the ledge i saw a big dark cave so when i checked it out I saw a set of fat lips and a big pair of eyes staring back at me and I let it fly without second thoughts knowing it was a grouper and after a short struggle i pulled the Big Mofo out of the hole. I was a very disappointed because i quickly recognized it. Went back to the boat with the fish, thinking i might have to leave it for the sharks and get rid of it becasue i don't want to bring trouble to the captain. but when the captain saw it he quickly put a big grin on his face and told me not to worry and to put it on a small cooler inside the cabin, his personal one :D that he will take care of it. And then told me that i just payed for the gas and the expenses for the day. :laughing3:. I felt bad but you know how it goes it could of happen to anyone. Honestly i haven't seen many of them in a long while. In a dark cave you see those fat lips and big eyes and you quickly think of a grouper. But my luck turn out to be one Nassau. If you cant see them sideways is hard to recognize them from the front.

    From the IUSA rules section.

    Quote

    For the purpose of a world record, "spearfishing" is defined as the capturing of a wild gamefish through the use of a muscle powered spear gun, while freediving. Only fish captured in accordance with the IUSA rules will be considered for a world record.

    I can understand why they wont accept records of certain species, but wow, this guy could use a little more manners. Nice emails.

    China V.I.P

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