Goliath grouper

Quote from fatty

So I just read alot about the Goliath grouper and seen some videos of it attacking a spear fisherman off the Florida coast do any of you had any run ins with this fish?

I grew up in the Panama Canal Zone and freediving spearing Jewfish in the 50's and 60' and landed many many over 300 pounds and speared a few over 600 pounds. Spearing them was easy - landing them was difficult with the old two band French Arbalets or Italian Spring guns we used tied to ski ropes and Clorox bottles for floats.

We ate the smaller ones, sold some, and gave the big ones to orphanages in Panama - none were wasted -BUT we gave up spearing them by the 70's since it really wasn't't very sporting. I have never had one take a fish from me - we had lots of men in grey suits to do that, but we did have one diver who claims he was attacked by a very large Jewfish while lobstering.

The current issues with the Jewfish, renamed Goliath Groupe, is the large numbers of them and their taking speared fish from divers in Florida. I understand this is becoming more prevalent.

I too look forward to earring from the Florida divers on the issues today.

Oscar, was your original avatar picture of you and one of these big fish?

I hardly ever see them but then again I don't dive on wrecks too often where they seem to be most of the time.

I dive and spear fish in the Gulf of Mexico, South West Florida. I have seen Jew Fish take a friends stringer of 3 fish and try to make off with it. The stringer was tied to a wreck and my friend thumped the Jew Fish (about 4 foot long) on the head a few times and the fish let loose.
Any wreck that we dive on always have Jew Fish on them, and they are always looking to steal your fish. They need to be thinned out.

Seen one take a permit and spear from a diver below me in the keys, have had them try to take lobster from me around under bridge pilings too

Quote from Treebilly3

Oscar, was your original avatar picture of you and one of these big fish?

Yes it was 352 pounds according to note on back of picture. No date given though.

Had one take the biggest mangrove snapper I've ever seen/shot about a month ago. I was laying in the sand and the jewfish lined up next to me, watched me shoot and went straight in for it.

Quote from sdeisen

Had one take the biggest mangrove snapper I've ever seen/shot about a month ago. I was laying in the sand and the jewfish lined up next to me, watched me shoot and went straight in for it.

Wow! Sounds like jewfish have the potential of being real pests for spearo's there!
I hope they're not associating humans with a free meal!

Quote

was difficult with the old two band French Arbalets

Kill shot technic for the goliath is possible?
You have to aim a point located at the apex of an equilateral triangle (the tiny brain).
the triangle base joins the two fish eyes. This technic has been used used by my cuban colleagues (before goliath get outfished and migrated pretty mor deep.) The fish approach is made from behind (blind space) by swimmming slowly to the top of the head. At the time the goliath is often stayng in front of a cave...
So it is possile to killshot a over 500lb fish with a 7 mm shaft/ one band gun!!...;)

Quote from nishthefish

Wow! Sounds like jewfish have the potential of being real pests for spearo's there!
I hope they're not associating humans with a free meal!

Unfortunately they already have. In my experience Goliaths are often more of a menace than sharks. When wreck fishing they destroy gear and steal fish all the time. Both the goliaths and the sharks in Miami have learned the sound of a gun going off but the sharks seem more weary of divers (in my experience, this is not always true and not true everywhere). The goliaths have also driven numerous other species out of certain areas. They are very territorial and i have even had them bump, "bark" and try to drive me out of "their" area.

IMHO there should be some form of open season to thin the population a bit.

One benefit of the bigger fish though, is they are learning to eat lion fish.

Quote from Wishihadgills

One benefit of the bigger fish though, is they are learning to eat lion fish.

That reason alone is enough to leave them alone....for a few years until they teach others to eat the lions.

Quote from hank

That reason alone is enough to leave them alone....for a few years until they teach others to eat the lions.

They aren't the only fish learning. Nature is incredibly good at adapting. While lionfish are invasive now and dominant, they will eventually matriculate into the food chain and things will balance out. This is just one example. Reef sharks and other predatory species are also starting to eat them.

In the short term the goliaths can be left alone to expedite this, but in the next 5 years or so they should prepare a plan for opening a season. I have a couple friends in school who are actually doing research on this as we speak. If the do something like the alligator tag with a limited number of "tags" that must be checked in, I think they can cull the numbers effectively and sustainably.

Personally I wouldn't shoot the big ones for food anyway. They don't taste very good (so I've heard) and they will likely contain ciguatera. There are, however, a couple on some spots of mine that I wouldn't mind "relocating" though.

I do agree with limited tags.

And I can attest to the fact that at least up to 150 lbs, here in Belize they taste great.

Great to hear other fish are learning. They haven't been here in Belize that long yet so maybe these fish are still learning.

Regarding the goliath's diet, I've shot about five of them here but never seen fish in the belly. Only crabs.

I follow the lionfish invasion very closely and haven't seen one piece of evidence that anything is predating on lionfish, you have any proof of this?

This is a video of a friend feeding a reef shark off his polespear. Not direct predation but they are willing to eat them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmCbbTCPU6A

Here is a video of a goliath eating one. The liondfish again looks dead though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP8GROhDwso

Here is an article not necessarily accredited but still useful.

Are predators eating lionfish? | The News-Press | news-press.com

These are just a few that turned up with a quick google search. A friend of mine at Florida Golf Coast University spent the entire summer doing lionfish research and found large groupers in the Northern Gulf of Mexico with lion fish in their stomachs and I personally shot a grouper (black) this sumer that had a small one in its stomach. In addition I believe there is a team in the keys trying to "teach" goliaths to eat lionfish by hand feeding them dead ones.

This is a relatively new development and like you mentioned there is very little scientific evidence or research directly on the subject. Most research has been focused on the lionfish spread and how to potentially control it. However there has been a lot of postulation that this could be possible/likely to occur.

It is proven good science that feeding any predator lionfish is not only useless but dangerous for us as the predators associate us with food...duh!! And have attacked us due to this moronic practice. Second, the team trying to teach lionfish predation are tethering them to the reef, and have come under a lot of criticism for this by lionfish and fish behavior experts. Expert's are saying you are not teaching predators to hunt lionfish by immobilizing their prey, but simply triggering their injured fish/strange behavior natural attack mechanism. I would extrapolate based on all the credible research done that the fish you and others found in the stomachs were already dead. Also based on the year's that lionfish have been in the Atlantic and the lack of a predator stepping up, many fish behavior experts believe that the species is so alien that no predators may evolve! Applying our common sense to problems is many times total bullshit as our perceptions are just that, our perceptions and are rarely reality in science or nature [emoji6] But I hold on to hope and wish for it not to be true.

Quote from Dude george

It is proven good science that feeding any predator lionfish is not only useless but dangerous for us as the predators associate us with food...duh!! And have attacked us due to this moronic practice. Second, the team trying to teach lionfish predation are tethering them to the reef, and have come under a lot of criticism for this by lionfish and fish behavior experts. Expert's are saying you are not teaching predators to hunt lionfish by immobilizing their prey, but simply triggering their injured fish/strange behavior natural attack mechanism. I would extrapolate based on all the credible research done that the fish you and others found in the stomachs were already dead. Also based on the year's that lionfish have been in the Atlantic and the lack of a predator stepping up, many fish behavior experts believe that the species is so alien that no predators may evolve! Applying our common sense to problems is many times total bullshit as our perceptions are just that, our perceptions and are rarely reality in science or nature [emoji6] But I hold on to hope and wish for it not to be true.

Only time will tell but I remain hopeful. The best predator that needs to be taught to eat them is humans. We are exceptional at making species disappear. Jamaica has found a commercial value and some estimates show 50-60% reduction in sightings.