Bands in my shooting line $%%%$@@@#

i have always surmized that the tangle happens when the shooting line has too much line memory..I have guessed that what happens is the line is released as the spear moves at all and if the line holds it's shape it raises up into the area where the bands are and snag....I try to remedy this by using spectra as shooting line, not mono.

again, this is just the best guess based on my observations...I know this happens to hau as well and I dont think he uses mono...so ?

Lunker I agree for the most part. However, I have had the same thing happen with spectra. It just doesn't happen as often.

I think also has to do with the angle of the shot. I seem to get more tangles when shooting at an upward angle.

Some of the other factors I have noticed are long shooting lines and shooting big fish up close. As the shaft stops or slows upon hitting the fish, the unused shooting line billows and rolls forward into the bands. I have watched this happen to me several times.

I am now a big fan of single wrap!

GR,

What are you using for shooting line?
How long do you cut your wishbones?
How many wraps?
If 2 wraps, do you alter the wrap direction?

I recently tried using a stiff spectra line for my shooting line and it failed miserably - got stuck in the bands approximatley every 10th shot. This stuff tended to get a kink in it when twisted.

Bill used a closed muzzle rob allen railgun for years as his primary inside the rig gun and would get tangles pretty regularly until he started changing out his cable as soon as it got kinked.

I think that the tangles happen when the shooting line is kinked, or somehow slightly messed up while it is passing through the area where the bands are spread out after releasing their energy.

In my mind, minimizing wishbone length and doing everything possible to ensure that the shooting line comes off cleanly and isn't a material that is prone to kinks and tangles is about all we can do unless a bottom line release is an option.

I know that Merlo's site advocates a bottom line release to keep the shooting line on the bottom of the gun, away from the bands. He says that he has never had a band/shooting line tangle using this system. I'm thinking about using it on some future big guns which will won't utilize reels.

I just read your post in the reel thread and wonder how you route your shooting line (through the line anchor, or straight to the reel?) I like running it straight to the reel, just to keep one more thing out of the band area. As you know a float isn't an option many times on the rigs, and we usually don't have a bottom, so this is a subject that is particularly significant to me.

why did you loose the gun ? the fish took it? were you doing blue water?

did the line tangle with the band after you shot a fish?

ive had the line tangle with the band, and the shaft being stuck on the bottom. if that makes any sense

i have been using the q powerline for my shootin line...single wrap and line release on the bottom (RA vetra) I have never had an issue with this setup...hau has the same line release and uses the same muzzle and same line as Ido, but he does have a reel. Perhaps it has something to do with the tension on the line as well..if the line is looser, perhaps it has the freedom to move more into the bands...

i have noticed that you are right Gris, about the kinks...I hate how easily most spectra lines will bind on themselves once they kink... Ihave been cutting my old shooting lines up to make wishbones and wishbone loops so I don't get too upset if I have to change out my shooting line every 10 dives...it is actually more like every 20...but at least i can recycle most of it

I WOULD GUESS WRAP DIRECTION,sorry about gun..

Common, but frustrating problem. I don't believe that side or bottom releases have much to do with the problem, since the vast majority of time, it's the line on the top that hitches around the band(s). Seems to happen with euros/railguns with greater frequency than bigger wooden guns (fouls per shot average).

I have some hole guns up here in NorCal that foul up almost every other shot!!! :@ Like Mr.Hanson said, it's often shooting fish close up. On video (plug for TinMan mounts), you can see the shooting line slightly arc up above thes shaft during shot, then hitch around the band on the way out. Any kinks in the line exacerbate the problem. I've also been a fan of tight loops on all crimped ends to reduce drag, but in my anecdotal experience, have found that bigger loops mitigate the fouling somewhat since the line flips over a lot easier.

Here's another oddity - my Omer Cayman HF75 will foul up regularly, but my Sporasub One80 with strikingly similar design... has yet to foul up once! Both rigged with 200# Hi Seas mono, single band, & almost identical shaft. :crazy:

On the flip side, before I started to use them, I've always thought my Sea Sniper guns would foul with the odd band design and all that loose line/rubber... but they've never fouled once. I think the fact that all the bands are loose and end up pointing forward after the shot doesn't really give the shooting line anything to hitch onto.

Interesting to see what people come up with on this subject, I'll dig around a bit too.

Never once had this problem on my old slide ring JBL . . .

That might be an interesting comparison. Which configuration is hydronamically "cleaner". A shark fin with an upward arcing loop of shooting line as it begins to move forward, or a slide ring that pulls the line relatively straight from the front of the muzzle? Not a JBL slide ring, but something like the slide ring for a slip tip.

This has been happening on some guys guns for the last 30 years even when slide rings and closed muzzels
were the rage. I shot some super 8 film of it but that is long gone. I observed on the gun I was testing that
shooting line could hitch on a band as the wrap passed the bow tie shaped band at the muzzle.

I tried to use tuna cord as wish bones a long time ago and tore off two nice fish when the line hitched a band.
I swam back to the boat and switched back to my 17/4 wishbones and after thousands of shots never had the
issue again. Your results may differ.

On one of my guns I set up to shoot Black Marlin with SS cable I fab'ed a bridle loop from 400# mono which stopped the wishbones
at the end of their pull. The loop ran from the mech and was secured at the front of the gun.Tonight I try to dig up some old pics.
Cheers, Don

Quote from Don Paul

. . . I swam back to the boat and switched back to my 17/4 wishbones and after thousands of shots never had the issue again.

Love to see some pics and specifics of how you do your hard wire wishbones.

Quote from Tin Man

Love to see some pics and specifics of how you do your hard wire wishbones.

I added some to my last post, I have to head out I'm taking my boy fishing.
Cheers, Don

For up close shooting of wsb I move my line anchor down the stock on my C2,No Ka Oi, and Islander and away from the bands. This keeps the excess shooting line away from the muzzle and I still have enough line if I need to take a longer shot.

Mike

Quote from Tin Man

Love to see some pics and specifics of how you do your hard wire wishbones.

PM me a address and I'll give you one, I don't sell them.
Don

I want to get one thing straight. Has anyone ever had or heard of shooting line (mono or otherwise) tangle with the bands with a gun that is not using a reel? I've never heard of such a thing and it never happened to me. I always use mono.

Quote from Dan

I want to get one thing straight. Has anyone ever had or heard of shooting line (mono or otherwise) tangle with the bands with a gun that is not using a reel? I've never heard of such a thing and it never happened to me. I always use mono.

Yes it can happen with a floatline. Bottom fishing. I think I have a video clip somewhere.

Here. Take a look at the end of the clip.

http://cdocs.org/halihunt

Good vid.

It looks like it may not have been a real tangle, if you pulled away everything would straighten out?

Probably it was caused by the closeness of the shot. The mono stopped when the shaft hit the bottom while the bands kept going and trapped it. Is that mono? How many wraps of line? Was there a bungee?

Quote from Dan

Good vid.

It looks like it may not have been a real tangle, if you pulled away everything would straighten out?

Probably it was caused by the closeness of the shot. The mono stopped when the shaft hit the bottom while the bands kept going and trapped it. Is that mono? How many wraps of line? Was there a bungee?

It was definatley caused by the closeness of the shot. It was tangled pretty well. I have learned to just let the gun go and work the floatline when it happens. That is mono, no bungee and probably three wraps. What happened is the wishbone grabbed the shaft and then the mono got involved. (I think). I almost lost two huge wsb this spring using a reel. Luckily I had a chicken line and the water was shallow enough for the fish to tie up. I was lucky. I no longer use reels. Its also easier(IMO) to recover a fish on a floatline if they go deep.

Mike