Open cell wetsuit misnomer

    Quality freediving wetsuits with smooth interior are commonly referred to as "open cell" which is a misnomer. Manufacturers who use this erroneous designation include omer, and Picasso among others, and even Speardiver. Even though I don't want to I still have to use this term to let buyers know that Speardiver wetsuits are made the same way that they've come to expect from a quality freediving suit.


    speardiver-wetsuit-miami-spearfishing.jpg


    In this context open cell refers simply to the fact that the interior of the wetsuit is not lined with Lycra or Nylon like your typical scuba suit. The designation open cell does not reflect at all on the type of neoprene used. In reality although neoprene for manufacturing wetsuits varies greatly in quality, ALL neoprene used for wetsuits is closed cell. Real open cell neoprene lets air and water pass through and is useless for our purposes. It's used in other industries, for example this material Perfectex - Neoprene Sheets - Open Cell Open cell means the tiny rubber walled cells filled with air that make up the neoprene are interconnected, not sealed from each other. In closed cell neoprene the micro cells are sealed from each other, if the walls of one break air or water will not pass through the cells adjacent to it and the material remains impermeable.


    So to reiterate ALL neoprene used for ALL wetsuits is closed cell. Scuba wetsuits have lining (Nylon or Lycra) attached to both the exterior and interior surfaces. What we've come to know as "open cell" suits have lining (Nylon or Lycra) attached to the exterior surface, and raw smooth neoprene as the interior. This raw smooth neoprene interior is a product of the cutting process that reduces the neoprene to the required thicknes; 3mm, 5mm etc. The exterior neoprene surface under the Lycra lining is actually the same as the interior.


    So my dilemma is whether to continue with the misnomer in the Speardiver wetsuit description, or try to educate and improve understanding of the product at the risk of confusing potential customers. What do you think? and if I move away from calling it open cell then what the hell should I call it? The designation smooth skin or chicle has already been applied to baked neoprene surface (still closed cell).

    Excellent clarifying, there's a more demanding customer than the others


    I think the image to display materials and a short text explcativo will suffice.



    Excelente aclaratoria, siempre habrá un cliente más exigente que los demas


    Creo que la imagen para que se visualice los materiales y un texto breve explcativo será suficiente.

    Un Hombre tiene que creer en algo.......
    Creo que me iré de pesca!!!

    Unfortunately I would say that the market has to dictate your decision. The term has become some what of a convention in the industry and as a result you almost have to follow it. The part of me that is a perfectionist is annoyed by the term and I do my best to correct it but I think it is too engrained to be changed now.


    However, if you do decide that you want to educate the masses with your product I would suggest the term "unlined." I think that is the proper term and I have heard it used sparsely, by knowledgeable people, to describe wetsuits.


    Interesting topic Dan.

    I have to admit when I first looked at your wet suits on the stores website, I didn't know immediately whether they were the same as what is known as "open cell". After reading the description, I figured it out, but people have to be willing to put a little effort into it.

    Good point Dan. I too, was aware of this but like you, for the purposes of more efficient conversation, have stuck with the term.


    It's funny though, because I never hear a lined suit being called closed cell. It's always called lined.


    I would just start using the terms lined and unlined. It's simple enough for the masses to figure out.

    I thought "open cell" refers to just the surface of the neoprene. Some unlined neoprene has a slick skin finish at its surface. And some unlined neoprene appears to have open pores at the surface.

    My vote goes for "Lined" vs "Unlined".


    I never have understood why the term "Open Cell" is used to describe any neoprene wetsuit. That type of neoprene would be of no real benefit to a diver unless in very warm waters. Unfortunately, all consumers are not created equal, and many can be confused by written descriptions or prior conceived notions/hype.


    Dennis

    I always thought a bit differently. I figured that Open Cell was a description of the surface rather than the characteristic of the Elastomer. When this rubber is formed, it's laid out in panels like a foam to gel. These panels can be @ 25mm in thickness. They are then sliced by a nasty machine into the requested thickness in increments of 0.5mm. Ie. 3mm, 3.5mm, 5mm etc. When the machine slices into this foam [Neoprene is made of an Elastomer foam] it cuts open the bubbles within the foam leaving those along the surface Open. There are also Closed Cell Surfaces.. Each end piece of the original Panel, is closed Cell, ie there are no cut open Cells. These are what we refer to as the Smoothskin used for "Smoothskin Seals" on the face, and sometimes, wrists, ankles, of suits. Otherwise, a Skin can be glued onto an Open Cell surface to seal it ie, SCS, Metalite, Gold, etc.. both inner and outer. But a true Closed Cell Surface occurs only on the two end pieces of the original slab.


    My $O.O2, I'd stick with Open Cell. Lined/Unlined makes most people confused.

    I just read through the description that you have and I feel like "smooth" isnt a proper description. When I am told smooth I think of a chicle cell or smooth skin suit which is not what you are selling. Jon brings up a good point in the use of open cell to describe the interior as exposing the cells of the neoprene but I still feel like "unlined" is the most appropriate description of the suit.


    There are two main types of suit on the market. One has a lycra or nylon lining and the other does not have any type of lining. Hence lined and unlined.

    Quote from behslayer

    I always thought a bit differently. I figured that Open Cell was a description of the surface rather than the characteristic of the Elastomer. When this rubber is formed, it's laid out in panels like a foam to gel. These panels can be @ 25mm in thickness. They are then sliced by a nasty machine into the requested thickness in increments of 0.5mm. Ie. 3mm, 3.5mm, 5mm etc. When the machine slices into this foam [Neoprene is made of an Elastomer foam] it cuts open the bubbles within the foam leaving those along the surface Open. There are also Closed Cell Surfaces.. Each end piece of the original Panel, is closed Cell, ie there are no cut open Cells. These are what we refer to as the Smoothskin used for "Smoothskin Seals" on the face, and sometimes, wrists, ankles, of suits. Otherwise, a Skin can be glued onto an Open Cell surface to seal it ie, SCS, Metalite, Gold, etc.. both inner and outer. But a true Closed Cell Surface occurs only on the two end pieces of the original slab.


    My $O.O2, I'd stick with Open Cell. Lined/Unlined makes most people confused.


    That's what I thought too, but Jon explains it way better than I did.

    Language is something that evolves over time and in use circles . Since true "open cell" is not used in in the wet suit industry I could care less what it is in another industry. since in The wet suit ,open cell = a unlined ,cut finish neoprene ,then that's what it is .
    Phil

    +1 for unlined, AKA misnomer-ed popular term "open cell", even with a small explanation to educate the buyer (as I was also unaware). That's the German in you, Dan. Perfection is a burden to some (you perfectionist). Keep it up, as your large 3mil will be my next suit while I'm down here in your area. I just have to decide on which camo, black or red. :thinking:

    I also, had been confused by this "Open Cell" label.


    I might consider labeling your suits "Freedive", then explain in your description that they are unlined.

    Dustan Baker

    Excellent explanation Dan. I too never understood the naming but thought of it like the interior foam cells are open to the skin whereas the outside is enclosed in lycra for protection.

    in the title..stick with open cell..in the longer districption, educate and explain that all suits use closed cell but that this is an unlined suit...and the best one ever


    EDIT- i realized i missed the second page and my suggestion had already been implimented..

    i like to spear fish

    Quote from parker

    I thought "open cell" refers to just the surface of the neoprene. Some unlined neoprene has a slick skin finish at its surface. And some unlined neoprene appears to have open pores at the surface.


    That's it!


    It comes from the translation from Italian "Spaccato", which reffers to the inner surface of the neoprene that gets in contact with the skin. Those micro (open) bubbles make the wetsuit sticky to the skin.

    Marco Melis

    A bad day fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work.

    Note in that article what the author calls open cell is the real open cell neoprene material, something that's not used to make wetsuits nowadays as far as I know. I explained this in my first post.


    It's unclear whether what he calls smooth skin is the "open cell" that we've established in this thread. Nowadays smooth skin or chicle refers to open cell (our's) that's been baked allowing a very thin top layer to melt/fuse. I'm not sure why this is done as I see no place for smooth skin in a spearfishing suit. Maybe in theory smooth skin is supposed to be a little more durable than open cell, but in reality it's not. Smooth skin is also very expensive.

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