Koah Spearguns

    Quote from Dan

    Thanks for the review linghunt, and well done modification. Can you please post a pic of how the cam behaves inside the trigger.


    I will see if I have some UnderSee cam/trigger safety's tonight if you still need a look.



    Cheers, Don

    "Great mother ocean brought forth all life, it is my eternal home'' Don Berry from Blue Water Hunters.


    Spearfishing Store the freediving and spearfishing equipment specialists.

    Why not have a safety?


    The response time of the safety to get a shot off is so minimal, and think about all the time you are in the water with the gun and not shooting.


    It's just another level of protection. You never point a firearm or a speargun at anything you can't take the responsibility for shooting. We are all safe with these weapons. Has anyone ever spun around and allowed our muzzle to point at our dive buddy. Handing the gun to a diver in a boat so you can get out of the water. (unload bands first, but have you ever not unloaded it?)


    One should also keep the trigger finger out of the guard till you have a target to shoot as well. I know some let that finger wonder into the guard. then no safety, and not paying attention then a dear friend might be looking down the muzzle.


    I think of these guns like regular firearms, yet we are in an environment where one can't point it up for a safe direction or down. No real place to go with it. add murky water to the mix...


    Not wanting to mount my dive buddy on the wall, so a safety seems like another level of protection. A safety can fail so all of the other behaviors are required.


    Hope you guys don't go elk hunting and walk around with the safety off, so you can get your shot off quicker.


    Not shot anyone, but I have had guns pointed at me by accident, I'm diving in the dirt to get out of muzzle direction. then it was an oops , sorry about that, I was not paying attention.


    Can't be too safe is my point, Don't want one of those OOPS days in my memory for the rest of my life. I'll take the 1/2 sec delay on a shot.


    I will draw a sketch of the Cam, I put the gun back together before I took a pic. That was an oops moment.

    Quote from Don Paul

    Is that Steve handle just flush mounted with wood screws to bear the recoil energy?


    I use a safety on all my guns, I have never lost a fish or shot opportunity. It is my personal belief a gun owner
    can remove OEM parts if they chose.


    Cheers, Don


    Just the stainless wood screws. That is a flaw in the design if it loosens up on you. I think they were about 1/2" long so a lot of engagement, Shear forces on the screws are not a factor.


    Have to think about it, if there is a better method.

    [quote='Linghunt','http://spearfishing.world/forums/index.php?thread/&postID=71843#post71843'] Shear forces on the screws are not a factor.


    I respectfully disagree.


    After a life in seawater ( and orifices that stay wet around the handle screw hole), repeated shock from gun cycling, I have seen them fail a couple times in the last 25 years. These were on guns throwing 5/16 and 3/8's shafts.


    I recommend to friends using Steve's fine handle to mill a pocket for it to sit in, this way the bulk of the point loading is shared with the stout front edge of the handle.


    Cheers, Don

    "Great mother ocean brought forth all life, it is my eternal home'' Don Berry from Blue Water Hunters.


    Spearfishing Store the freediving and spearfishing equipment specialists.

    Quote from fishingdude

    ^^ so true. I'm not sure why you would need a safety either.


    But as far as Koah goes, they are made locally in FL, and while I haven't personally shot one, I do know that it is mainly favored by SCUBA divers. For the money he's paying for a KOAH, he could just get a riffe euro 130 and shoot the crap out of any bluewater fish he needs


    I am receiving my 65 bluewater in a week or 2...lol... Really wanted a fully enclosed track Ben that can deal with the 4 or 5 band configuration with a heavy shaft to punch through big fish and I like my loading stock to hook my wrist into to track and carry in current but the proof will be in the pudding :)

    A bad day at sea is better than a good day in the boatyard
    George Steele


    I agree that milling a pocket is a good idea vs just screwing the handle to the surface of the gun.


    So to make sure we are on the same page, did you see failures from the repeated shock causing the screws to loosen up then the screws shear off? or the screws sheared off with everything ridgid and tight?


    I don't think you are refering to the screws getting pulled out of the wood.


    Being in a saltwater environment corrosion might add to the weakening of the screws. I would think this would be minimal. We all wash and take care of our equipment. Impact on the wood vs the metal would be my guess.


    If we are talking a metal fatigue failure from repeated loading and unloading, that would be interesting. Th number of cycles and amount of actual strear force would have to be higher, I would think from a gut feel.


    Do you remember the size of the screws that failed, probably an 18-8 Stainless I would guess, not a zinc plated alloy steel.


    Let me look up some shear numbers on a #6 or #8 screw.


    Regards -John

    Regardless of how strong or weak a handle that's not recessed is, personally if I see a handle that's slapped on like that it immediately turns me off. I couldn't turn out a speargun with handle bolted on like that. Unless there was no room for it to be recessed because of the mech or something. I have nothing against Koah.

    Yes it looks sloppy, and the screws are not orthogonal either. not sure that inpacts anything, just looks sloppy. Not to be to picky... there is plenty of room to do that recess, 1/8" or more.

    I understand that is the best handle (Alexander), deserves the best finish. (constructive criticism)


    I see on your Koah page, the design of hybrid type like more ET and price Koah gun.

    Un Hombre tiene que creer en algo.......
    Creo que me iré de pesca!!!


    I'll see if I still have the guys old stock this weekend, but I might have wacked it for wood.(I didn't build it).
    On paper when we do the numbers on the hardware and recoil force and give it a go, all seems well....
    Then the handle gets taken off and on a few times trying to get one more barrel in that fishing pole case headed for baja.
    The guns arrive and we celebrate with a few shots with your friends before heading back to the hooch to screw the handles back on. The SS screws give a little screech as we over torque them into place, but the gun is fine this trip.Later when you are in the water the Panga skipper is pounding uphill in short chop and the guns get tested for build strength. The motorheads and engineers among us throw all the hardware (screws) away when they get back home, but most will not. Years go by and on one trip the gun is loaded with 3 or 4 hot 300% elongation 5/8s rubber. The next day our hunter takes aim at a record grouper, the shaft doesn't go far as the handle shears the screws. The butt of the gun drives his nose bone into his skull...blood is everywhere. The Mexican Navy is called in to medivac. My friend is very very wealthy but his $ can't save him now, he is in the hands of the gods. I have personally seen this happen twice with broken hardware on handles not keyed to the stock.
    Mother nature and abuse will surprise the shite out of a guy with a shear/elongation chart in his back pocket. ;) Anyway both guys lived, but the guy with the bucks spent 80K in getting his face fixed.


    Cheers, Don

    "Great mother ocean brought forth all life, it is my eternal home'' Don Berry from Blue Water Hunters.


    Spearfishing Store the freediving and spearfishing equipment specialists.

    Edited 9 times, last by Don Paul ().


    I got ya, if the design is going to fail and do that, more needs to be done vs milling a slot.


    Let me run this problem by some of my mechanical engineering buddies and Physicists I work with. As a simple electrical guy, bigger screws at a minimum, if not a bolt captured into a pressed in threaded nut.


    Taking the handles on and off the wood could get your face smashed in. I'll get back to you on this one. I pic of the busted gun would be great.


    My handle is coming off my gun. Thanks for the info Don.

    [QUOTE=Linghunt;71880


    My handle is coming off my gun. Thanks for the info Don.[/QUOTE]


    I have had a couple washing down the tuna tonight, I didn't mean to be blunt...but some times it grets the point a crossed.


    Having guys out there have a hard look at the gear is words to my ears. I drove my best friend to ER
    bleeding badly when a broken handle screw tore through the web between his thumb and index finger...
    it was a bad day.


    All the best, Don

    "Great mother ocean brought forth all life, it is my eternal home'' Don Berry from Blue Water Hunters.


    Spearfishing Store the freediving and spearfishing equipment specialists.

    Quote from Don Paul

    I have had a couple washing down the tuna tonight, I didn't mean to be blunt...but some times it grets the point a crossed.


    All the best, Don


    Not blunt at all, no offense taken by me. Facts and thoughts to the point I like very much.


    Remember to slap me down a little if I over engineer stuff. Going to put a little energy into this one and get at the root cause of that, as best I can. I will beef my gun up some even thou it just sits in the closet.


    General question: what is the typical muzzle velocity of a spear with a 3 or 4 band gun? lots of factors, but typical speed is all I'm looking for.


    I'm washing down King salmon with a shot or two of Jack. Going to have to start a Food thread to go with the bikini one. lol

    32 meters per second for 9/32 and 5/16 shafts @ the muzzle is a good starting point, shooting a 3/8s 6 ' long is much less.


    Dam....a whiskey sounds good.


    Cheers, Don

    "Great mother ocean brought forth all life, it is my eternal home'' Don Berry from Blue Water Hunters.


    Spearfishing Store the freediving and spearfishing equipment specialists.

    Nice story Don.


    Just to make a point; a safety ONLY prevents the trigger to be pulled. Doesn't prevets the shaft to be missfired. This being said, I understand that is a personal prefference (that I don't have).

    Marco Melis

    A bad day fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work.

    The same thing happened to Sherri Daye when her Wong's plastic aimright handle sheared off. And that handle was recessed into the stock. Same story as Don told. Gun broke at the handle holes, smashed her in the face, and she had to be airlifted and operated on (she was in mexico at the time I think) I recall the main cause in that instance was the handle and screws were countersunk, weakening the plastic around the screwholes for an early failure. The handle also seemed to be composed of a pretty brittle plastic.

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