SCUBA spearfishing

Commercial fisheries will always take more than recreational fisherman. Cant compare the two..

If recreational fisherman want to make a difference in reef health. They would follow the regulations (as most of us do) and leave the trophy fish alone. Hell you really can't eat that 80lb grouper so leave it be. A grouper that size produces almost 20-30x more eggs than a more modest size grouper that would be fine for consumption. When we spearfisherman hunt these big fish, it puts a lot of pressure on the total reproductive output of the fish.

We may not be able to control the regulations or even the commercial guys, but we can control what we shoot and it's nice to see that almost all the people I've met on this forum practice this simple philosophy.

I still feel that spearfishing is one of the most sustainable forms of fishing out there. Longliners are doing way more damage than we could ever dream.

Quote from Hardline

Commercial fisheries will always take more than recreational fisherman. Cant compare the two..

If recreational fisherman want to make a difference in reef health. They would follow the regulations (as most of us do) and leave the trophy fish alone. Hell you really can't eat that 80lb grouper so leave it be. A grouper that size produces almost 20-30x more eggs than a more modest size grouper that would be fine for consumption. When we spearfisherman hunt these big fish, it puts a lot of pressure on the total reproductive output of the fish.

I've always had my doubts about what you are stating above. A big fish like that have had many reproductive cycles and eats A LOT.

Is it documented?

Needless to say, I always go after the big ones.

Thanks.

I agree with Marco. I've grown Chanos chanos (milkfish) and tilapia in tanks for breeding. The biggest fish aren't the most productive in those species. And with shrimp, the younger "hot" little females produce more. Most growers replace them after 3-4 months because productivity drops as they age. Genetics plays into it too. One may carry the fast growth gene but not have the high productivity gene. it gets complicated.

Big ones may produce more eggs per spawn but the frequency of spawning may decrease proportionately.

AND, one of the best eating fish I ever shot was a 140 lb goliath. It was reeeeaaaallly good.

I shot a goliath once. And will not do it again. Is like shooting a cow.

.

This is a "united we stand divided we fall" discussion. Iv hand this discussion many times with fellow big game hunters. Just because you don't agree with some one else's idea of hunting doesn't mean you should condemn it. In fact you should passionately defend it! because who knows once that is gone it might just be your favored way to hunt that's on the chopping block next.

Quote from Chase

Im after one nice fish when I go out. Sometimes I even come home empty handed after swimming for 4-6 hours. If someone's idea of hunting is poaching lobsters and shooting undersized fish and surfacing with a full stringer every 20 minutes I cannot and will not support them. The only fish that SHOULD be harvested in this manor are 'invasive species'. It's divers with these practices that make the rest of us who actually care about the reef look bad too. So I must differentiate myself apart. At the end of the day is this not a sport? Where's the sport in scuba spearfishing? If you don't believe what Im saying about them, youtube any scuba spearfishing video and just watch as they fill an entire stringer in one dive. If you want to blow bubbles and shoot fish it should be restricted to 100' or more if we're going to compromise here.

I'd be more than willing to bet that we would see a big change in the life/activity on our reefs within a few years if they implemented a strategy like this. For some reason the old saying "It's like shooting fish in a barrel.." comes to mind when I think of scuba spearfishing..

- Chase

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You bring up several points that I'm glad you did. First there will always be poachers scuba, freediving, rod and reel some people will always abuse a resource and you can't say it's only the guys on scuba doing it. Poaching comes down to enforcement and informing people of what there actions are doing. I have spearfished both ways and I have chosen my preferred way but I'm not going to tell some one they can't shoot fish on a tank because of a few who do it illegally.
How many years do you think you have to Freedive? Now throw in a life changing event like a heart attack, stroke, car wreck..... Will you stop enjoying the water and shooting a fish or two? Do you want that option gone if something like that dose happen? Not all people in power chairs are to fat and lazy to walk just as not all on scuba are fat beer drinkers. Don't try and take some thing from others just because of a few bad people.

I wouldn't get to bent up about the sport of it some times it's just about enjoying the water and bring home dinner while your down there.

I think your hart is in the right place your just taking it out on the wrong group.

Quote from Chase

Im after one nice fish when I go out. Sometimes I even come home empty handed after swimming for 4-6 hours. If someone's idea of hunting is poaching lobsters and shooting undersized fish and surfacing with a full stringer every 20 minutes I cannot and will not support them. The only fish that SHOULD be harvested in this manor are 'invasive species'. It's divers with these practices that make the rest of us who actually care about the reef look bad too. So I must differentiate myself apart. At the end of the day is this not a sport? Where's the sport in scuba spearfishing? If you don't believe what Im saying about them, youtube any scuba spearfishing video and just watch as they fill an entire stringer in one dive. If you want to blow bubbles and shoot fish it should be restricted to 100' or more if we're going to compromise here.

I'd be more than willing to bet that we would see a big change in the life/activity on our reefs within a few years if they implemented a strategy like this. For some reason the old saying "It's like shooting fish in a barrel.." comes to mind when I think of scuba spearfishing..

- Chase

I am going to go ahead and sound like an A hole but your post are very ignorant, there is no "compromising" because you don't agree with shooting on scuba :crazy: the only people who makes us look bad are people who don't follow current laws and regulations regardless of there method of take.

Why are you getting worked up about this Ron? After all this is a freedive spearfishing community. It's understandable that his ideas come from the frustration of seeing scuba divers with lights and scooters make it impossible for fish to find refuge. Breath hold spearfishing seems to be a reasonable boundary everywhere else in the world.

Chase, I don't consider spearfishing a sport.

I sure do like the open dialog on some of these threads and no one is scared to voice an opinion.

I really like the fact everyone seems to understand the other perspectives given.

The bow hunting chat was pretty good. I heard the same dialog against the hunter with inline muzzle loaders vs traditional types.

Only issue I had with inline shooters is that (some) would over shoot the range of the gun and just wound an animal. with better Technology and scopes , they can lob rounds in with no energy for a proper kill.

That being said they could get on me for using a tradition weapon with poor ballistics. I could be doing the same thing at close range. Heard this chat around the campfire and seemed both hunters were right. The inline shooter if he didn't over shoot his gun, had better platform to talk from.

Anyway the chat and dialog is what I like , educates us all.

As for Sports, ball games, boxing, golf and even racing fall into that group. Don't see ESPN covering hunting and diving activities.

I haven't commented from the start but will now. Chase you need to try spearfishing on tanks to make a informed decision on your views. I spent more time on scuba spearfishing than I did freediving and can say that the both methods have advantages and disadvantages. Scuba spearfishing is not that easy and several experienced free divers like hank have stated that in previous posts, do you think you know better? I won't take another fish on scuba because I am now addicted to the sport (yeah I said SPORT) of freedive spearfishing. I love the challenge and sense of personal accomplishment.
If you are in a rich hunting ground like the videos you see of scuba divers it isn't that they are on scuba its that they are in a target rich area, if we freedivers were in the same place we would have the same killing spree. It's again as stated above commercial and people who don't use common sense or follow good rules that damage our fisheries.
Also none of the above applies to pelagic hunting, which is my thing :p

I stand corrected, spearfishing is a sport.

SPORT

noun

1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

2. a particular form of this, especially in the out of doors.

3. diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.

4. jest; fun; mirth; pleasantry: What he said in sport was taken seriously.

5. mockery; ridicule; derision: They made sport of him.

Quote from Marco

I've always had my doubts about what you are stating above. A big fish like that have had many reproductive cycles and eats A LOT.

Is it documented?

It's documented.

PLOS ONE: Depth Refuge and the Impacts of SCUBA Spearfishing on Coral Reef Fishes

Quote from Hardline

It's documented.

PLOS ONE: Depth Refuge and the Impacts of SCUBA Spearfishing on Coral Reef Fishes

Thanks for posting that.

It does kind of confirm that statements that regulation is the key here. Night diving on a new moon does make it very easy to get fish, free or scuba diving. I had some experience doing this int he Philippines and Hawaii. If there is any moon, the fish can see you even with a light. No moon, they just sit there. And that's what the paper was pointing out also.

Again, it's not really the method. There is no scuba spearing here in Belize but the commercial guys really depleted our parrot fish until they becomes protected and now they can't sell them.

Also, they pointed out the humphead Wrasse as one that was depleted. That's because it's extremely valuable in Chinese restaurants and commanded a very high price. It's protected now in most areas, including the Philippines but they still bust boats with illegal catches.

I would be happy to take anyone to my friend's place in the Philippines. He has a very nice resort in a rural village with its own little island with an area that the locals made into an MPA. We'll strap on some scuba gear and see how many fish you can get. We are selective there, just like here. See how easy it is….or isn't.

Quote from Hardline

It's documented.

PLOS ONE: Depth Refuge and the Impacts of SCUBA Spearfishing on Coral Reef Fishes

This excerpt from the document supports what Chase is saying. It's really just simple logic.

Quote

Deeper waters that are inaccessible to certain fishing methods could provide protection to reef fish in the same way as spatial closures by allowing spillover of adults or recruits. This was exemplified in the Californian abalone fishery, where a ban on the use of SCUBA allowed a greater biomass of legal-sized abalone to accumulate in deeper water, providing localised recruitment over time and supporting high catch yields in shallower waters [28]. In locations where a ban on SCUBA was not implemented, low numbers of reproductively active individuals across the depth range resulted in a collapse of the fishery [28]. As SCUBA spearfishers can access deep-water reefs and selectively target larger individuals, the use of this fishing method may limit the reproductive benefits from remaining populations that have been overexploited at shallow depths. Depth refuge from fishing pressure may be a widespread effect, especially for tropical artisanal fisheries that primarily use gears such as spear guns and nets to target shallow water populations [8], [27]. Previous studies focused on depth refuge for coral reef fish have based their conclusions on differences in species richness and the presence/absence of certain species [26], [27]. Our study expands on this by using two classic fishery indicators, biomass and length, in addition to changes in assemblage structure. While there is some evidence that SCUBA spearfishing is still practiced in the CNMI (albeit at a reduced level; [9]), we found lengths of scarines and acanthurids to be of a greater size in deeper waters of CNMI compared to Guam. Similarly, several fished species were positively correlated with this deeper refuge at deep sites where SCUBA spearfishing is banned, while there was little difference in assemblage structure in shallow waters where snorkel spearfishing is practiced. It is apparent from these results that deeper waters provide refuge from fishing impacts when protected from deep water fishing methods such as SCUBA spearfishing.

Chase dont get me wrong I feel the same passion for my ocean and really get where you are coming from, but I believe you are wrong on your no tanks spearing. We all do it for sport, so do you, know matter how you phrase what we do the facts are we will not starve without fish harvesting nor do we depend on it for our livelihood...therefore you fish for that rush and for the sport.
That being said sustainability is the name of the game and I dont believe that scuba does more damage than scuba wherever you are... if scuba is getting more action its because the shallow water divers have killed all the fish shallow. The truth of this is we all play a part.
Dan all I get from above is the freedivers killed all the fish shallow so they retreat to the deep and now they want the deep protected from harvesting as a shelter, BUT the damage is not the scuba fault, all that paragraph is saying to me is stop one method to give the fish a breading chance, why not stop the shallow as well?
Many times I have touched on this forum what commercial free divers are doing to our Caribbean reefs, it aint good and no scuba commercial guys could ever do what I see those guys do. Thats the facts not a opinion. But I am not sure what good this discussion does for our reefs, fishes and our sport.

Fish population is replenished when fish move from "safe" areas into areas where they can be harvested. If there are no safe areas then there's nowhere for fish to repopulate from. A depth limitation based on what a person can dive holding their breath creates a safe area. It's so simple I don't know how you don't get it.