HELP!!! blank lamination fail

You didn't mention hardner.

I never heard of laminating without hardner. I think that's the reason it didn't work.

Your friend must not like you. Your resin needs hardener

Now you know.

Quote from Taylorwoodgo

thanks guys. I have the 405 fiberglass blend. Will this be good and what ratio should i go by.

Go with what it says. Are you sure 405 is a hardener? I thought 200 numbers were the hardeners and other numbers were just additions...

405 is a filler. 205 is a fast hardener, 206 is a slow hardener.

Ddonell is right. 405 IS A FILLER. For laminating blanks you have to use the 105 plus a hardener like 206 in a 5:1 ratio, that means 5 parts 105 resin and one part 206 by volume. After mixing then you add the filler being 403 best for laminating until you get a creamy (like ketchup) consistency then do what you did and clamp and stuff. Or you could get West Systems G-FLEX EPOXY glue and mix it in a 1:1 ratio (equal parts by volume) and use it straight like I do or add a little of the 403. Also is very important that if you are going to use the same wood laminates that were soaked in the uncured 405 resin make shure that you clean them real good with solvent (I prefer xylene) and give them a light sanding and extra solvent cleaning to make shure that you get a strong bond to the wood and not to the uncured resin in the wood grain. I hope this helps.

Quote from Taylorwoodgo

I didn't use any hardener. This was recommended by a friend who has built guns.

Friends don't let friends laminate without hardener. :nono:
I would wash it all off, re sand with 80 or 100 and start over using Billy's directions above. If you have a planer I would put it to work.

Cheers, Don

That sucks! check out west systems website. They have a a lot of great info about their products. Also make sure that you follow west systems recommendations to the letter. they know their product better than anyone. something you may consider doing is ordering the measuring pumps that they make as this will guarantee that you have the proper ratio.

THAT WAS NOT NICE ! ! ! Make sure after you lay up your blank you give your buddy a good WHACK with it . . . . . . . . :@ . . . . . . . :thumbsup2:

Perhaps your friend was trying to tell you not to add EXTRA hardener, as this will offset the proper ratio of resin to hardener. Epoxy does not get hard by evaporation of solvent, it is a chemical reaction between the two components to form new, stronger bonds. If you vary the resin to hardener ratio it will offset the stoichiometry of the reaction.

Quote from Ryddragyn

Perhaps your friend was trying to tell you not to add EXTRA hardener, as this will offset the proper ratio of resin to hardener. Epoxy does not get hard by evaporation of solvent, it is a chemical reaction between the two components to form new, stronger bonds. If you vary the resin to hardener ratio it will offset the stoichiometry of the reaction.

one of my favorite words of all time

also good advice

Hi guys,

I know this is an old thread but I was wondering about the laminating process described here.

Taylor mentioned that the clamps had "one squeeze" each. Is there a preferred amount of clamping force? What if you use screw handle style clamps, how tight is right? Do you not want to squeeze as much epoxy out of the gap as possible?

Dave

just make sure there is even pressure on the entire length of the blank.
I clamp quite tight. If the laminates are planed and straightened correctly, tighten til snug, but not so much that a lot of effort is needed but you dont want to see gaps between the laminates. Very little resin is actually needed to create a strong bond so if epoxy is gushing out of your blank, you're probably wasting a lot.

epoxy is preferred by many gun builders because of the strength of its bond, this is due to the ability for the resin to penetrate every nook and cranny creating a solid mechanical bond. I believe it became popular when laminating teak became popular, other adhesives just wouldnt hold up when gluing the oily wood, epoxy was the best solution.

Got it, Thanks for the tips!

A couple of comments to add to this. In the original post there is mention of acetone. I try not to use that unless necessary. I believe Riffe had some delamination problems a while back due to acetone. I use my air compressor and make sure there is no sawdust or anything left on the wood before epoxying. This ensures the wood does not have any solvent to mess with your epoxy mix. Additionally, I did not see too much mention of filler. For laminating I see filler as a must.

Dave, regarding your question on how much pressure is too much I keep going until there is minimal pressure. If you are trying to tighten your clamps and you are using force, that is too much. You don't want to squeeze out your epoxy, otherwise, you end up with gaps that you won't necessarily see which means a weaker bond and possible delamination problems in the future.