Sniper gun design for Wahoo/Tuna/Ulua?

What is "normal size"?

Quote from hau

Gun designers / builders / blue water hunters--
question--What (In your opinion) is THE best gun design for sniping "normal size" tuna, wahoo and ulua out to 25-30ft range? (ANY gun design possible including many bands, roller guns, any length)?
background--Where I live and hunt the bluewater is crystal clear and the wahoo/tuna and ulua are very skittish. I need a sniper gun that will reach out and hit "normal size" wahoo/tuna and ulua at 25-30ft. I have shot rear handle pipe guns (Like 130RA) for years.
(I know many will say to just get closer to the fish, but I want your opinion on a sniper gun/spear combination that will "drive tacks" shot after shot).
Thanks for your help

I would say your hunting conditions are very similar to the Red Sea.
I usually use 125 cm with 3 x 16mm bands for 20-25 ft targets...wooden gun if course since you need accuracy at long range.

Ihab

Because I know you like Euro style spearguns, I recommed the Speardiver Teak Euro in 130 or 140cm Speardiver Teak Euro Speargun

HAU if you want to stick to pipe-style guns look at the aimrite king venom. It has a cuttle bone shape but otherwise is a pipe gun and with three tight bands I bet it would do what you want. I shot one in Hawaii and it was a cannon.

Quote from hau

Ihab---thank you
What gun or gun design would you suggest for the best accuracy in 125cm 3X16mm?
Would not a 4band 140 or so gun have longer/accurate range? I am just asking.
Thank you for your reply.
(PS--I have seen fish like in your avitar here in Guam, just not that big. Congrats on such a nice fish).

Thanks Hau...we're just lucky to have some nice size fish in the Red Sea.
Going for 4 bands is a bit overboard in my opinion.

This stock weighs a little over 3 kg without any accessories or ballasting weights.

With accessories & weights, it reached 5 kg.

The cuttle fish design helps in tracking since this s a Euro style gun....adding a forth band will not increase the distance considerably but will have an effect on power


.......but you'll need to go for a heavier stock.
Going for 3.2: 1 ratio on 3 x 16mm bands does a good job in powering up this baby with excellent accuracy at 6 meters...shaft used is carbon steel 7.00 mm...didn't need any thickener shafts...with a 25 cm overhand.

Hope this helps.

Ihab

Good thread!

If you use chum and flashers, you can bring your fish closer. Also, after some blue water "expeditions", you will learn than wahoos behave totally different than mackerels despite their similar look.... :rolleyes1:

Mahis are stupid. If you have chum, they will come to eat it from your hand. Tunas can not care less about you. If there's something to eat, they will eat. Uluas I have never seen one in the water.

I had an Aimrite once and ended up selling it after three uses. I bought it used and it missfired twice first time I used. I called the manufacturer and he sent a new mech. I changed it and the trigger pull was way too long. I absolutely didn't like it at all. I gave it two tries but didn't got used to it.

I like Dan's wooden gun (without haven't use one). But be aware that NOTHING tracks in the water as a pipe gun.

The weapon with many bands (+2) tends to lift your head and you want to shoot accurately at long distances.

Rear handle helps shorten distance.

pneumatic 130/135 is a great weapon, the detail is maintenance.

Quote from sdeisen

if you want to stick to pipe-style guns look at the aimrite king venom.

The Aimrite venom uses the same Merou copy handle as the rest of the Aimrite guns. It is an outdated handle with poor ergonomics. It does not allow a solid grip for good leverage on the gun when tracking. This will be especially noticeable with long guns that have a lot of water resistance to push through, the handle will want to turn in your hand instead of the gun moving. By contrast the Speardiver teak Euro handle provides an excellent grip which will allow you to track a big 130 or 140 gun with ease.

Dan, is the Aimrite/Merou handle shape really so different from the Speardiver Carbon and Carbon Elite handles? To me, they look quite similar in the pictures I've seen. (I recognize the Speardiver Teak Euro handle is altogether different.) The Aimrite handle fits my paws fairly well - better with a bicycle tire inner tube slid over the handle.
Side note: I used a King Venom one day, but didn't like the balance. It seemed too muzzle heavy to me - especially for such a pricey gun.

I am no expert, but I almost exclusively dive blue water now and I understand your frustrations in clear water. Spooky wahoos are a pain, a long range gun will be an asset for sure! BUT the problem with long range shots on Wahoo is that if you don't hit them a sold holding shot in the few spots on a wahoo that allow good holding shots I guarantee if you don't stone it, it will rip off. Tuna is the fish I have found range to be the biggest asset for, their hide is thick, tough and pretty much anywhere you shoot them is a holding shot. Problem is getting them to stop their loony tunes motion long enough to get a frigging shot! :D(chum helps!) I have a Koah 65 4 band fully tracked gun and it is laser accurate with almost no recoil, i hear divers throwing that term around allot and it has been an exception not a rule in my experience with several guns. 1-2 band short range guns are easy to be accurate, 3 bands don't have enough penetration power in my experience from any decent range especially with a light shaft. I just commissioned a 70 inch 5 band gun specifically for the blasted 100lb + tuna that here in our crystal clear water seem to always stay just out of good penetration range of my 65. If you get accuracy at range with penetration it has been my experience it requires a big gun.
Everyone goes back to just stalk them right..blah blah blah :rolleyes1: I want results on most situations I find myself in, especially since I suck at breath hold :laughing3:. You don't need a fast tracking gun in the blue for fish as you can see them from far and line up yourself and gun for the shot most times, and I am sure for you swimming along and seeing those fish at the edge of your sight you don't need fast tracking.
What I wanted, and I got was a gun to give me a shot at the times when they are skittish and staying far away. From behind, long shots have been productive for me on tuna. If I get close enough I can spit and kill a fish so who needs a serious gun for close up work?:@;):laughing:

The Speardiver carbon speargun handle feels very different to the Merou/Aimrite handle. The only other person I've seen recognize this fault with the Merou handle is z1taz, he's an experienced diver. From Aimrite Venom vs. Sea Assassins 1 Shot 1 Kill Spearguns - Spearboard bubble blowers drama forum

Quote from z1taz

it as a good ergonomy IF : you wear thick gloves ..
anf IF you do not use it on a long barrel in current ...

cause IF you are in warm waters with light gloves and w a longer barrel than 130 cms in some current waters ...you ll see ...the handle move in yr hands alone from the current pushing on the muzzle from the gun....

also those handles are heavy , also the nylon line if 180/100 or up is often damaged on a 7 mm spear from the side of the trigger ..

( those on a merou handle )

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I experimented with the Merou handle and my carbon tube 5 years ago. Looks great but like I said you don't get good leverage on the gun. hau will remember this gun.

Thanks Hau...we're just lucky to have some nice size fish in the Red Sea.
Going for 4 bands is a bit overboard in my opinion.
Tuna 1 : Quote Ihab

Great looking gun Ihab:thumbsup2: very nice.

Hau, I'll come back to this Sun with my comments based on 30+ years of 90% blue water, the pacific and long guns.

Cheers, Don

Quote from Marco

But be aware that NOTHING tracks in the water as a pipe gun.

C4 Graphite (better then a pipegun) :cool2:

Quote from hau

Ooooh BOY, I can't wait. Thanks Don Paul

Hau, I'm on the Vicodin a wee bit but I'll try to work through my thoughts.
First question is how long a gun can you cock ? Sure it is technique but that only goes so far. I'll start with my stats 5''11 with a 76'' finger tip to tip wing span. Huge hands that can rip phone books because I work them hard every day. I can can elongate 4 bands of the best grade 16mm rubber to 300% elongation (400%stretch) on a 72'' barrel. This was the length of my longest Blue water canon that I thought I needed to kill fish in super clean water found off shore around the Cook Islands and Polynesian waters when I first dove for wahoo, mac and yf tuna there. The gun with a 3/8 shaft was a true 30' killer and made up for my un-honed skill as a smart stalker and hunter. As I learned more about getting fish closer and getting the fish to swim to me the monster gun went on the rack where it still lives. Yes it has taken 80# hoo but it is over kill.
30 foot kill's can be done with a canon but over the last twenty five years I chose to get much closer to my present 20' max kill zone.
I prefer to kill most blue water fish within 15' off my tip or even closer. The longer the shot the more missed or wounded fish in the long run.
I hunt the blue now with a mid handle barrel 58'' from rubber to mech 5/16'' or 3/8'' depending on mass of the fish. It kills all day at 20 feet.

Those fish your are describing will not need a canon in my opinion just more local knowledge to get you at closer range with the longest barrel you can cock and carry around in the current all day. I would be doing it with 3 bands and something in the 140 to 150 range. Local stone cold killers with skills should be happy with a 130 max. Ho and small tuna will give you 15 foot or closer shots, but after a while may hang out on the edge. We cannot own every fish we see on our terms, one can have twenty tuna sightings a day with out the trigger pulled, that is the nature of the blue dance.
All the gimmicks, flasher tape, flasher rigs,chum, can help speed the process but are not a substitute for close stalking skills. Make the fish seek you, clear your mind only thinking love and fun while you wait for mother ocean's precious gift. In time you will be rewarded and it wont take a monster gun and 30' hail marys.
These are not deer or elk, we need to get closer to insure clean kills, It is not so much about the length of the gun.
Use the local tide and bait knowledge and befriend some hunters there that land the fish you are seeking. Most impotent you need to be in the water when the fish are moving to bait or point to point up current. Good rod and reel fishermen know this science, use them if you can. Any trick or knowledge that will get you on the fish needs to be applied to yield good results, a long gun is not as important when the fish accept you. This is way different than reef and structure hunting of friendly amber jack or grouper or snapper in their cave.

I saw one of Ihab's guns not too long ago and was very impressed at the build quality. Red Tide also speaks highly of Dan's wood gun as well, 3 band are plenty.
Now the good news...the bigger the Hoo the closer they will come to check you out and it only takes a 20'30' dive if that.

Cheers, Don

Hau, I would try getting ray too hook you up with ron laguana. PM me if you want his father's contact info. Those guys are some of the pioneers of diving in Guam and know all the tricks of the trade.

http://peskadot.web.gu